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Hawkeye

UO has changed in the past few months. I may have contributed to the problem.

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I became a Forum Moderator to help my friend Marvin. He and Sceaduwe were working very hard on converting the Forums so I offered to help lessen the Forum work load. I was approach yesterday by a Regular to review whether the Mike ban followed SOPs. It did not. I am not an original Regular therefore I cannot make a determination based on original intent. I can only follow the written Charter and SOPs. However 44 Regulars took the time to vote and closing the thread on a technicality did not sit well with me so I poked Krause and asked him to start a new one as an Officer. Last night I was able to speak with Mike on TeamSpeak to explain my actions and reasons. He understood.

 

I was on the fence about banning Mike. Falcon made a well crafted case but besides the first ban which Mike now admits he was very wrong the later charges seem minor and unfortunately common. The last charge was more than 7 weeks old so when Mike asked me why he was being banned now I could not tell him. I guess what impressed me was Mike’s unprompted suggestion to speak to Falcon on TeamSpeak . The impersonal nature of the Forums I think hurts our community. I wish we took advantage being able talk to each other.

 

I hope no one blames Krause for restarting the ban thread or trying to amend the Charter/SOPs. Clearly I am accountable for both those threads. I know not everyone appreciates Krause but a close look at his most recent efforts with the Falcon BMS tutorials is worth it. He spent literally hours creating videos teaching others what he already knew. That is in the best tradition of UO.

 

Being the oldest Regular it should come as no surprise I started flying Falcon in 1988 and OFP/ARMA in 2001. I love those games and enjoyed them both in sp and with brothers/friends. Online squadrons/communities have been around forever but I never came close to joining them, until UO. UO was different.

 

The Charter had a welcoming democratic tone. UO was based the best aspirations of gaming. We need to recommit to the values that launched UO in the first place. It really is about enjoying gaming with people you respect and have a good time with.

 

I see being a Regular as a responsibility not a power.

 

If you are a Regular and have concerns about our current direction now is the time to act. Now is the time to write and express in general terms where you would like to see UO headed. The details can come later. Now is the time to step back, reevaluate and paint with a broad brush what you feel should define United Operations!

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i agree with hawkeye, the tone here has gotten out of hand, and we need to address some of these issues, it shows on the game population too.

i know that fall is the time of year with fewest people on but the server being dead most of the day EU time is a symptom of something else and it could easily be because people want to avoid the drama and the rough tone

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Cliquishness on the TS3 server and a generally coarse tone has, to use our usual language in discussing such matters, put sand in my ****** and made me a butthurt little cumshit. I never thought I would miss the days of language warnings from admins!

 

We all need to stop making trolling our means of one-upmanship, and break out of our TS channel cliques into some neutral lobbies.

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I agree, seems like every time I have gotten on the server the past month or so, the amount of "herp derp" has escalated

 

And I completely agree with Nikov's last statement

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I've discussed all of this many times with many people. This is my opinion:

 

[9/19/2011 3:23:25 PM] jaynus: When you bring 10-20 guys onto the server, all with the correct expectations, it has a MUCH larger effect on the server.

[9/19/2011 3:23:26 PM] CD (Nou): people forget that you need caretakers in democracy still

[9/19/2011 3:23:28 PM] jaynus: You have the backing to say fuck you

[9/19/2011 3:23:29 PM] CD (Nou): you need governance

[9/19/2011 3:23:29 PM] jaynus: and kick/ban

[9/19/2011 3:23:31 PM] phillysphinest: I would prob donkey punch them

[9/19/2011 3:23:32 PM] jaynus: and enforce good play

[9/19/2011 3:23:34 PM] jaynus: When you have 2-3 guys

[9/19/2011 3:23:39 PM] jaynus: trying to corral the kindergardeners

[9/19/2011 3:23:40 PM] jaynus: its chaos

[9/19/2011 3:23:47 PM] CD (Nou): otherwise you get reactionary effects, people going down the wrong path

[9/19/2011 3:23:49 PM] CD (Nou): etc

[9/19/2011 3:24:00 PM] CD (Nou): we have democracy with out checks and balances

[9/19/2011 3:24:02 PM] CD (Nou): its dangerous

[9/19/2011 3:24:04 PM] Chris Krause: i advise all of you to sign up for beta's training campaign thingee

[9/19/2011 3:24:08 PM] CD (Nou): its essentially mob rule

[9/19/2011 3:24:17 PM] jaynus: Sigh.

[9/19/2011 3:24:30 PM] jaynus: I dont want to get into the higher level governance bullshit discussion about this agian.

[9/19/2011 3:24:32 PM] jaynus: I want:

[9/19/2011 3:24:43 PM] jaynus: What are we LACKING on the server, on the server *ONLY*, which is causing problems?

[9/19/2011 3:24:44 PM] yannik "Yaxxo" hegge: get a bunch of people together who know what they're doing, play arma, smack everybody who is being retarded?

[9/19/2011 3:25:15 PM] jaynus: And I, personally, think thats the 10+ people in leadership positions willing to bitch people out, or otherwise call for action from teh GM/admin

[9/19/2011 3:25:27 PM] CD (Nou): Jay its really simple, if we had some sort of leadership, however instated, we could say things like "this is not how we do it around here, if you do continue to do this you will be expelled, no if ands or buts"

[9/19/2011 3:25:40 PM] CD (Nou): it still allows changes to the charter and SOP

[9/19/2011 3:25:44 PM] CD (Nou): but the point is you nip shit in the bud

[9/19/2011 3:25:48 PM] jaynus: Dude.

[9/19/2011 3:25:52 PM] jaynus: Any officer can do that on the server at any time.

[9/19/2011 3:25:53 PM] jaynus: So can any GM.

[9/19/2011 3:26:01 PM] jaynus: Just it becomes a raging fuckfest unless you have some backing for it.

[9/19/2011 3:26:11 PM] CD (Nou): which is the problem jay

[9/19/2011 3:26:11 PM] jaynus: Hence needing an "assemble" of people on the server

[9/19/2011 3:26:14 PM] CD (Nou): the backing

[9/19/2011 3:26:20 PM] CD (Nou): we lost our chance at that

[9/19/2011 3:26:24 PM] jaynus: sigh

[9/19/2011 3:26:27 PM] jaynus: your getting existential again

[9/19/2011 3:26:28 PM] jaynus: dont care.

[9/19/2011 3:26:34 PM] phillysphinest: no nou is right on that I think

[9/19/2011 3:26:36 PM] jaynus: We, the people who give a fuck, need to play more.

[9/19/2011 3:26:38 PM] jaynus: Its as simple as that.

[9/19/2011 3:26:49 PM] jaynus: And not "just more"

[9/19/2011 3:26:50 PM] phillysphinest: we make decisions and every fucking regular has a complaint about how we did it

[9/19/2011 3:26:54 PM] jaynus: but more together, specifically

[9/19/2011 3:27:01 PM] jaynus: big deal

[9/19/2011 3:27:03 PM] jaynus: they can suck it, fuck them.

[9/19/2011 3:27:25 PM] jaynus: On the server, we need to (again, i think I said this like 6 months ago) actually play en-masse

[9/19/2011 3:27:53 PM] jaynus: The GM staff was an attempt to solve that, and I think that's met with mixed success.

 

 

Summarized in this sentance:

[9/19/2011 3:31:49 PM] jaynus: If any of you guys are up for it, I'll start trying to call assembles. Otherwise I am out of ideas and as Krause said - we can "continue the negative waves" instead

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I don't want to play on the server anymore.

 

Why?

 

I don't want to have to babysit 100% of the time.

 

"No, you can't run out and grab the enemy AK"

"Please don't launch flares on a night patrol when we are trying not to be seen"

"Please stop throwing smoke grenades while waiting in ambush"

"Why did you fire that AT4 into the house when there was no contact?"

"Please stop singing while on a route patrol in an area with known enemy contacts"

"Please stop crabwalking during briefing"

"Please stop doing the kung fu animations"

"Why are you sprinting around me in a circle while I am attempting to sort out buddy's ACRE?"

 

...

 

Need I continue?

 

 

Yeah, I can deal with retarded shit. I've been doing that for a long, long time. However, what makes the game fun is being able to get a few missions in every once in a while where there ISN'T retarded shit to deal with and things just WORK. That hasn't happened when I played on the server in a long, long time. I got sick of constantly having to say "Oh well, maybe next time". I don't think I'm alone in this ...

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"No, you can't run out and grab the enemy AK"

"Please don't launch flares on a night patrol when we are trying not to be seen"

"Please stop throwing smoke grenades while waiting in ambush"

"Why did you fire that AT4 into the house when there was no contact?"

"Please stop singing while on a route patrol in an area with known enemy contacts"

"Please stop crabwalking during briefing"

"Please stop doing the kung fu animations"

"Why are you sprinting around me in a circle while I am attempting to sort out buddy's ACRE?"

 

This, and other stuff I've read worries me. Despite the fact that theres less than 1% chance of me playing Arma at any time within a year or so.

When I was playing here daily for those 3 months or so earlier in the year, the above sort off stuff was controlled by the massses. If someone was being a tool in a proper mission(or even in dom/ins) 90% of the server (reg or no) would quickly stop it. The do'er of the actions above was quickly put straight and/or felt like an idiot, or taught what to do or how things should be done etc etc. People that were new started to desire to play properly because that was what was expected and welcomed and respected, respect was a big thing imo.

 

Has it changed now and is it 'uncool' to say shut the fuck up or to not join herp derp rather than the other way around resulting in fewer people controlling it(only regs/or only SOME regs)? Is there no longer a 'time and place' for teh jokes and lols and such? Do you get more respect for being the funny guy throughout the mission rather than performing your role properly?

 

[9/19/2011 3:23:25 PM] jaynus: When you bring 10-20 guys onto the server, all with the correct expectations, it has a MUCH larger effect on the server.

This.

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Jaynus is totally right. Regulars need to play more, and be a leading force on the server. We didn't get voted into it just so we can vote. Part of developing in the community means you PARTICIPATE. The private channels south of the gaming border in TS suck the server dry of Regulars. Not saying we should do anything about them, but you gotta know that, as a regular, you gotta be playing "regularly"

 

My two cents.

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Ever since my return I have been frustrated beyond belief by what the community has digressed into and what it is continuing to spiral towards.

 

There is a time and a place for fun, no one here is so serious that a little silliness or screwing around is gonna get shut down, hell we used to let Azzwort sing disney songs while we were on long marches. But the rest of the time people need to at least attempt some amount of focus and discipline. When I am squad leading or platoon leading the last thing I need is a couple herpderpers making fun of someone, making loud annoying noises, or running off so they can blow things up with the stolen RPG they found on a body. And when I tell people to stop, they either try to circumvent my orders by going to another person in a command spot and asking or just ignore it. I have actually on several occasions heard people plotting to "accidentally" kill me when they thought I was out of range on ACRE because I told them to stop being retards and get on line in a fight etc...

 

This is turning into a more of a rant but the above behavior is rampant and unfortunately when new people come into the community they learn from those people, instead of the regulars who are almost never on to enforce the values of play and style and profesionalism that we used to take such care to maintain. This is also leading to the newer crops of regulars not having any of those skills or values instilled and then bringing in more people so the community is slowly slipping away into an epic fest of herpderperry.

 

I almost feel like we need to set forth guidelines and or SOPs regarding a standard of profesionalism and seriousness to help new people know when its cool to make jokes or sing a song and when they should be listening to their COs or staring straight ahead at the trees their FTL told them to cover.

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When I am squad leading or platoon leading the last thing I need is a couple herpderpers making fun of someone, making loud annoying noises, or running off so they can blow things up with the stolen RPG they found on a body. And when I tell people to stop, they either try to circumvent my orders by going to another person in a command spot and asking or just ignore it. I have actually on several occasions heard people plotting to "accidentally" kill me when they thought I was out of range on ACRE because I told them to stop being retards and get on line in a fight etc...

 

 

This is the kind of stuff that you need to send up to an admin so that they can be processed for a ban.

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I agree. I'm with UO and were with TG before, because of the people that I met. I don't think there are many other communities like ours. We are special. UO shouldn't change at all, we just need to keep moving forward and take things easy. Less drama and more fun.

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People don't show up because they're bored. Arma follows a pretty standard pattern of game play that tends to be rigid - This isn't a rule, but there tends to only really be exceptions. This isn't anyone's fault, but missions tend to be the same basic load out (Mwhatever, etc) and follow the same basic game play (Infantry try to locate contacts, back and forth shooting begins, players tend to come out on top.) that only primarily differs on the terrain it is on and even then it's fairly superficial stuff. (One day you will be shooting from a hill! One day, maybe it is a building.) Assets, too, all follow a similar sort of 'samey' thing, though in personal opinion tend to feel a little more varied in comparison to the infantry kits on the simple virtue that they don't show up/are limited in most missions.

 

TvTs change the gameplay up a bit, make it a bit more exciting past the dumb AI, but they tend to be just the same as well; simple, samey kits of light infantry fighting light infantry on a 1:1 scale (In comparison to a COOP's more target enriched environments of 1:3-5~) because, hey, on the common day you're probably not pushing 80+ players to facilitate both sides having enough players to start running around with fancy assets. (Those sorts of COOPs are 40+, after all... Which need to be divided in a TvT, obviously)

 

Is this anyone's fault? Again, no. I believe, with no real "source" to cite from, that people are simply bored of Arma, or at least burnt out. UO has been around for about a year, now, and some of these people have been playing "here" prior to UO's inception. Of course a lot of them don't really feel up for playing.

 

It explains why the servers tend to be on the empty side, regular wise... Though not the pettiness.

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Jay and Mikee hit the jackspot.

 

With work stepping up my hours to full time and attending college I'm just one example of someone who used to play quite a bit, and now have hopped off the ship for a bit. I'm going to try though (and so should others) to get on more, I like your assembly idea Jay, just oh god.. Please try to make them a little later than our events normally are.

 

Mikee hit the money too, too many people are taking things way too seriously, and every little bit of drama gets blown out of proportion, because most of the things that are being argued about really don't mean that much, or could be solved fairly easily. Instead we argue constantly though.

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It took 8 (to 10) replies to get to "Ban them all" just saying.

 

 

x2

 

Excuse me for the French but this is becoming retarded, you guys are blaming new players for ills that have always been here[prominent regulars bragging how they stealth team kill people they don't like is no different then people plotting to kill you ingame] - if you are expecting certain standards to be done then you have to play on the server and show it to all the new players, be honest now - most of you[myself included] have stopped playing on the primary during none events time, don't expect super tactical gameplay if you are not making it happen.

The situation now is not the worst it has been - I remember people rage quitting from missions...even ending them in January back when I joined due to retarded behavior, back then during Euro time we were lucky to have 8 players just to play Domi and now it seems no one gets on the server unless its at least 35 people doing their own very specific mission.

There needs to be less atitude "Regulars vs retarded none-regs" because this is hurting the community, talk all you want we are a minority here, last TvT event we peaked at 55 players of which 18 were regulars/officers and 37 were not, during our epic 70-player TvTs we had the total of 25 regulars against 45 none regs, we are both the same part of the community, if all the none regulars were to quit like some are hoping here because they believe its them causing the retardation we would be playing Socom missions with 20 players during events.

The retardation is formed in a vacuum which is generated by lack of leadership on the server, not by anything else.

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I agree with Nikov, the drama has gotten way out of hand here.

 

 

+1

 

 

Also I think you shouldn't say anything about people not liking/liking krause in your post hawkeye. I think the only people who as a group hate(?) krause are the goons, most of us regulars think krause does a great job(in my opinion.) and is a likable guy most of the time :D.

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+1

 

 

Also I think you shouldn't say anything about people not liking/liking krause in your post hawkeye.

 

I did not think I did say anything like that about Krause... but being an old guy I must admit I had to check my post :)

 

If you check I only wanted to shield Krause from blame and point out how underappreciated I think he is.

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All of you are saying more or less the same thing. And I agree. But its nothing surprising, it all makes sense.

 

For me, unlike Gamer, playing same missions over (even though I am trying to resolve that with the Missions Lists FEATURE) is not as a big deal, the big deal is how you execute them, and I think raising the bar there, is what most of us in this thread would enjoy. How to raise the bar is a whole another question but it falls down to these points:

 

1. I haven't had to enforce it too much yet, but any type of intentional HERP DERP is not tolerated by me. I didn't sign up with this community in order to have 3rd grade gameplay and I have the bottom quote from the SOPs on a shortcut in my Custom Coms in-game.

 

4. Players are expected to follow the command hierarchy within the mission - and to perform their job to the best of their ability. Players disobeying orders will be removed from the game...

 

2. On the other hand you have to understand there is new guys here that need a limited, but still needed guidance, I would say that dealing with that false into 2 categories:

 

a ) The obvious one is UOTC

 

b ) The less obvious is REGULARS playing on the server and affecting the Critical Mass . Check the link if you are not familiar with the sociodynamical term, but basically if you have 3 regulars and 1 new player in a fireteam, you ll get a completely different result compared to when the ratio is reversed. So while on the individual level everyone decisions has been NOT to play because of HERP DERP, you have been contributing to the very same problem.

 

 

 

On those conclusions I have to say that I will be comming up with couple things to integrate our unitentional HERP DERPs.

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