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Jack Bauer

OSAMA IS DEAD

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I'm quite sure I saw it on TV, this was in the Netherlands though, don't know about the US or any other country.

 

I'll tell you right now I agree with both Ham and DC and am probably what you would call a conspiracy theorist (though I consider myself a nuanced one, I don't believe everything I'm told by either side of the spectrum of beliefs). Either way, I'm of the opinion that we need reliable information, that's how democracy works. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I firmly believe we are being lied to, information is being withheld and I certainly don't trust our 'leadership'.

 

However, like I said, let's just keep this kind of stuff on the low cause it'll just ruin the great atmosphere in this community.

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@Slavinkje

 

Yep, You saw a MOBILE PHONE video of it on TV. It was leaked. We don't do that.

It is obvious you are a child, or have the mentality of one to think that your want to see proof, which would be a picture of a gun wound to the head on TV is just for electing officials.

 

We elect them to do a job, and when they do....we bitch moan and complain, because we don't have access to information that we want. I see NO logic in your argument....so don't call out mine...

 

No government officially showed a video of Saddam being hanged...it was off a phone.

If pictures or video was to be released, the same people like you and Ham would call them fakes, like 9/11 was, and countless other situations where perfect logic and explanation was given....and people were just like..."nope, don't believe it....photoshop".

 

My side of this is over, I won't continue to argue with children, I don't with mine at my house, won't do it on here....lol

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Just because someone has a differing opinion than you it does not by any mean give reason for you to call them a child and dismiss their arguments. You yourself do not see logic because you don't see an argument to begin with. Your demeanor is very condescending.

 

He who makes a claim has the burden of proof. This is elementary logic and rhetoric that is taught early on in college or high school. The issue at hand is that the evidence provided thus far is:

 

  • photos of some home area in Pakistan
  • photos of random dead "fighters" with date stamps
  • our government providing information to our media

 

 

They claim to have killed Osama Bin Laden. A person that has been searched over for over a decade now since his incarnation by the CIA in the 80s. They claim to have buried him at see to respect Muslim faith yet he is not a Muslim. They claim to have killed him but have no photographs or videos available to the public to confirm this in the slightest. They claim to have DNA evidence but all they do is say they do (mitochondrial DNA was likely used to confirm and it does take a varying amount of time to sequence and analyze it but doing it in hours is quite possible today. I've done it in lab.

 

 

All we have is words from people who have little to no credibility to begin with ie politicians. You say we expect too much by demanding transparency but I say you do that because you are apathetic and irrationally trustful of government. Your entire argument rides along the assertion that what you want is what other people must want. However that is an unethical proposition. What you have left is the claim that the photos and videos would be too obscene. I beg to differ. That is you who feels they are obscene and unfit for viewing. Plenty of us have no problems with it and you would not be forced to view the photos or videos if released.

 

The point is there is no reason for you to defend the absence of evidence because the presence of it could not logically affect you.

 

 

 

If you truly do choose to ignore the absence or presence of evidence I hope you never enter a courtroom as a member of the jury.

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I tried applying to reason and calmness and you respond with attacks on my character which you base of nothing and making assumptions on what I would or would not do or think. This isn't an argument we're having, you're simply bullying anyone who doesn't agree with your general world view... and you call me childish?

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Yep.

And anyone else who just jumps into an discussion and makes quick remarks will get the same response...live with it.

 

Let me ask you a simple question, maybe one that I should have in the beginning.

What type of evidence would you except.

 

Both you and Slavinkje and Volucris.

If pictures were released or video?

That really seems to me the only thing they could release...they are not going to share DNA...that would be impossible to give every person that wanted it a sample so they could run their own test.

 

Photos of 9/11, the twin towers, and the Pentagon have been released, and shared, and we have people saying that they are fake, set up, rendered, manipulated.....

The damage from the Pentagon is not right for a plane impact...The towers could not have fallen from a plane alone, they heard separate blasts....yada yada yada...

 

In the spirit of a discussion. I would really like to know what "proof" you seek. Because honestly, you and I both know, if pictures were released, everyone would call them fake, or photoshoped.

 

And also, I ask you this. Why would the government lie, if they really didn't get Osama....

If He showed back up, or made a video, it would mean the end for our government, and position in the world....we would be done.

 

If He was already dead, why would it not have been claimed by Bush? Ot released earlier....

I just do not see one motivation to lie about having got Him.

 

I do see one lie though that is very real, and could happen, if it was set up perfect.

I could very well believe that they captured Him....and we now have Him, and that we just told everyone He is dead. In that case, it does not really matter, because we will get info that we want, and then He will still end up dead in the end....

Andi will be called a monster for this, but I hope that that is one lie that would be true...I think it is a shame that He died before our boys in the CIA and what not, got a chance to "talk" to Him.

 

Other than the lie that He is dead, so we can "talk" to Him uninterrupted, I see no logical reason to take the chance of lying about something people had pretty much given up hope on anyways....

 

The election angle is a joke, His numbers have not even went up that much, and He could still get fucked.

World image? Nope, we still have a shitty one.

I am just at a loss as to what the reason would be, and nobody has put up an idea or anything to make it so.

 


BTW,

The above post, for those that did not get it, was a slight bow of concession to those that feel and saw my other posts as bullying.

In no way was I trying to project that.....

I just feel that when we see something, and everyones first response is disbelief, it hinders our goals, and everything that we have accomplished.

 

I am a supporter of our government, and our past. Yes, I disagree with things they do, as everyone does....but I believe in the whole, not the part. I feel we get nowhere when we stop the whole process, and just focus on one situation and kill it with speculation....

 

I still feel that there is no evidence that could be given that would change peoples mind though that don't believe He is dead. If people believe that, it is kinda like 9/11....not to sure they will ever change their stance...

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All I have to say regarding the photo is that its disgusting to see we live in a world so desensitized and so vulgar, brash, and brutish that people demand to see pictures of a man with his head blown apart.

 

You don't need to see photos of bin Laden's brains to be sure he's dead. The US government, believe it or not, wouldn't go about advertising this if it wasn't real. You all give the government far too much credit... it's not capable of pulling off such a conspiracy.

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^ lol. True

Bush couldn't even pull off speaking like at 12 year old. Lol.

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If I were in charge I wouuld treat this this like any other covert operation... don't say shit about it and move on down the line to the next in command. Don't advertise, just quietly kill the leadership off until the problem is gone and fuck all the bleeding hearts. We don't need to know everything. I read that Superman is going to give up his american citizenship and going to work for the UN, for social justice (so the publisher says). Well fuck him too.

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I think the key point is this: almost every form of evidence can be faked. Therefore you have to believe that the provider of that evidence is not acting in a dishonest manner. In which case you may as well just make the decision based on the bare statement.

 

Personally, I don't see the benefit to faking this. Going to look a bit silly when he makes his next video if it is...

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Wait, didn't Superman already recieve a sort of "global citizenship" in prior canon?

Given that he was, you know, extraterrestrial and all that, and as such he couldn't really have a US citizenship in the first place (unlike his alter-ego).

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Wait' date=' didn't Superman already recieve a sort of "global citizenship" in prior canon?

Given that he was, you know, extraterrestrial and all that, and as such he couldn't really have a US citizenship in the first place (unlike his alter-ego).

[/quote']

 

I find it hilarious that Superman is a illegal alien

:blush:

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lol....oh America :)

 

Anyway, not that Al quigly wiggly have confirmed it I will believe it.

 

At the time it was the most suspect sounded garbage I'd heard the US Gov. come out with in a long time "Rejoice we have killed Osama and dumped his body somewhere in the ocean....but its Ok WE GOT DNA!!!".

 

With the US governments back history of lying and all round herpery can you blame people for being suspect?

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Osama Bin Laden is dead,get used to it,I hold no sympathy for the man,to many lives were lost and wars started because of the actions of Al-Qaeda and their hatred and murderous attitudes on their quest to fight for power and influence to impose their ideals.They even said they would kill 10 Muslims just to get at one westerner,which makes them an enemy you'd love to hate,Muslim or not.

 

The West is known for cover ups and all that,just like any power,but not when it comes to killing or capturing their enemies.The details,such as,was Bin Laden armed,shot in the head or chest,did he resist,was there a big shoot out or did the Seals go in guns blazing,how long they knew he was there and such things you can always be skeptical about,but when the West,America specifically says they killed their enemy and have confirmed it and announce it to the world,you can bet your bottom dollar that's what happened.They take pride in such things.

 

Obama would gain nothing about lying about killing Bin Laden,that's not his style anyways,plus,people in the West are very vigorous when it comes to finding out the truth of a situation,free press and all,and also people who will take up personal quest's to unmask the lies governments put out there.Most of this "I don't believe they killed Bin Laden" comes from people outside of the Western world who hold a grudge against the US,but for us who live in the west,we know that this is something that has truth and that the Western government would not lie about such a powerful and influential enemy.They could have said they killed him at Torra Borra,but they did not,that would have been the time to lie about it,but there's no value or even propaganda value about it if they did.Sooner or later people would know he still exists and it would not go well for the US's reputation and influence across the world.

 

Believe what you want,but Osama Bin Laden is dead as dead can be and sooner or later,some terrorist nut job will probably put out a video mourning and talking about how Bin Laden is now a martyr in their cause,and people should remember him and continue the fight and fight harder because of it.

 

If there's a message to be thrown out there,that America would proudly say,love or hate America,they will pursue their enemies with their Military machine forever,and those who are on the run from it,will live a prisoner's lifestyle till the day they die,because they will be forced to hide for the rest of their lives.

 

In time people will see,but the war still rages on,Soldier's will still gear up and go outside the wire,the front lines will shift and new battlefields will be joined in other places in other countries,the fight continues,but the one called Osama Bin Laden has been killed and that's the end of his story.Time for a new one.

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^ I love it....

That shit made me laugh....lol

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See what I said,Al Qaida acknowledges Osama's death and of coarse call for more blood,upon blood to overflow more blood in a see of blood and yada yada yada.These nut job terrorists just want to kill half the world,and kill some more and they keep up their rants about spilling more blood and blood curses.For people who talk about going against Tyrants,they sure play the part of Tyrant well.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13317717


 

Edited:that was weird,my internet must have been acting up and that's why it was doubled and tripled,first time I saw that happen to me.

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Osama or Usama as some prefer, got the Navy Seal eye test... This better or worse? How bout that..Better?Worse?

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Removed your double post chief, hope you don;t mind :P

 

Also, stop using IE9! The only thing it's good for is downloading a new browser!

 

Can someone get a job in the pentagon and leak the seal helmet cam video? That would be a great watch. Saturday night in with popcorn, beer and kick ass 1st person shootout :D

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Although I think capturing him wouldve been a more interesting thing I'm glad you guys finally finished this.

Also, apart from the fuck Pakistan part for obviously hiding the guy, its kind of shitty that the US can conduct operations to kill someone inside an independent country. There arent many Osamas to justify it but this happens in smaller scale every day without getting in the news. Or is there some kind of agreement between the US and Pakistan?

 

Also guys, please understand that although the US has a significant cultural influence on the whole world, just as well as you "patriotic americans" protect whats yours, even if you feel something's not right with it, people from the middle east or europe or around the world will do the same. And theres no arguing about the fact that as all the major powers in the world, the US deals in quite a lot of shitty business as well. A little more understanding and common sense can go a long way in understanding the views of people living elsewhere. When someone says, alright fuck al kaida, but lets just take this US thing with a bit of salt too, thats just common sense.

This is not about disputing 9/11, or not believing this guy is dead, or saying the holocaust never happened... these things just dont matter, no point in arguing about it, people saying this will always exist. I understand that if someone doesnt accept the full win enthusiasm of this situation, it may hurt the patriotic feelings of some of you guys in these days (no irony intended) but still you have to understand most of the people are on the same side, even if thinking differently.

 

Theres a line in a video posted before saying america refuses to live in fear. When I heard this in the news this is what immediately came to my mind. Fear will most certainly not change. And I think this is the shittiest thing in this whole case, there are more people "living in fear" in the US than anywhere else in the world. Killing this extremist fucker will most certainly not change that, actually it will cause exactly the opposite. And this is what I hate the most about that cultural influence I mentioned. The news reports try to get closer to the way you guys do it there and im sorry to say its just disgusting. The whole point of those is to make it bloodier with more brains splattering around and asking stupid questions at stupid times in middle of a news article, which has absolutely no reporting factor, its only for influencing the viewer. This "american style" among many other things causes dislike in a lot of people in the world, but that doesnt make them stupid or terrorist or anything like that. Its just common sense...

 

Anyway, good job guys, lets hope we'll see a cool movie, a tom clancy style book and a nice mission from this :)

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