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ACE3 - Medical Rewrite Update

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I am somewhat confused over the implementation of cardiac arrest. Does it still happen from other sources than a mortal wound? The other two types of "what happens on a mortal wound" sound quite gamey, however, there are a few medical circumstances where a casualty can go into cardiac arrest from common battlefield wounds. Most of them however, generally will not be solved by epinephrine and CPR, and please stop carrying blood around in your patrol packs, it needs to stay cold you know ...

 

Honestly, as long as they have a system where successful hits to vital areas incapacitate quickly, but non-vital area hits are significantly less effective as well as a reasonable simulation of bleeding to death, it is more than enough for me.

 

Until you want to get into simulating surgery or "mundane" casualties like heat/cold injuries, sprains/broken bones, et cetera, then managing blood loss and the airway are really all you need for a solid simulation of combat medicine. Getting more granular on being incapacitated and the effects of being wounded would be wonderful.

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I am somewhat confused over the implementation of cardiac arrest. Does it still happen from other sources than a mortal wound? The other two types of "what happens on a mortal wound" sound quite gamey, however, there are a few medical circumstances where a casualty can go into cardiac arrest from common battlefield wounds. Most of them however, generally will not be solved by epinephrine and CPR, and please stop carrying blood around in your patrol packs, it needs to stay cold you know ...

 

Honestly, as long as they have a system where successful hits to vital areas incapacitate quickly, but non-vital area hits are significantly less effective as well as a reasonable simulation of bleeding to death, it is more than enough for me.

 

Until you want to get into simulating surgery or "mundane" casualties like heat/cold injuries, sprains/broken bones, et cetera, then managing blood loss and the airway are really all you need for a solid simulation of combat medicine. Getting more granular on being incapacitated and the effects of being wounded would be wonderful.

 

It sounds like 'cardiac arrest' is a fig leaf for a more gamey revive system. If you receive a would which is instantly fatal or mortal you go into 'cardiac arrest' instead of just being dead. Doesn't sounds like something that happens in the course of being wounded if you play according to their first option where the system is off. 

 

In general I agree that as long as bleeding management is handled well then that encapsulates 80%-90% of what is required for a good simulation. My one point for improvement is that I would like to see more permanent consequences for receiving non-fatal wounds  after you have been treated. I.e. permanent limp, impaired aiming, reduced stamina, etc due to limb injuries etc. 

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Current ACE medical has revive state too, so it's nothing new, not more gamey than what's already available. Of course it can be toggled on/off in server/mission settings.

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Beta, would plasma be carried around or it needs to be cold too?

 

Plasma has similar storage problems as blood.

 

You can potentially get away with saline, as long as it doesn't get too hot or freeze. For example, storage practices for saline in a hospital involve storing below 30 celsius, away from heat, moisture, and light. Unless you swap your saline out frequently (every patrol for example), you may run into saline that is bad and potentially doing harm to a casualty.

Edited by beta

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Sounds like they have improved the system if a few shots to the foot or finger are not fatal and smaller caliber bullets (or shell casings lol) do less damage.
 
The cardiac arrest sounds much too gamey.  Is this a thing?  Can soldiers be revived from cardiac arrest and have enough strength to run around a few minutes later.  I simply don't understand medicine enough to get my head around having very serious wounds and then with first aid being able to get up and continue fighting.
 

My one point for improvement is that I would like to see more permanent consequences for receiving non-fatal wounds  after you have been treated. I.e. permanent limp, impaired aiming, reduced stamina, etc due to limb injuries etc.

 
I agree that serious injuries should have permanent consequences.  I also understand that some players enjoy being a medic.  Also, perhaps there is a way to allow the casualty to leave his/her body when they have been massively wounded and allow the medical player(s) to keep treating the body to keep it alive.  The player wouldn't get up and fight again but the medic would have a casualty to play with.  The injured player would be free to spectate or go AFK.

 

CO - "How is he?"

Medic - "Large crushed avulsions  to the right leg, arms, head and torso.  Massive bleeding from multiple heavy punctures everywhere and the left leg is gone below the knee."

CO - "Well,  tie off the left leg and patch him up.  When you're done tell him to hop up to the house on the right flank.  We need every body fighting ... not laying around."

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I think it looks good, calling it 'cardiac arrest' is a bit pointless; it's a game, just call it 'critically wounded' and leave it at that, rather than trying to bring in actual medical terminology.

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 My one point for improvement is that I would like to see more permanent consequences for receiving non-fatal wounds  after you have been treated. I.e. permanent limp, impaired aiming, reduced stamina, etc due to limb injuries etc. 

I disagree. Imagine being 15 minutes into a 2 hour mission and falling off a high wall or clipping through stairs, breaking a leg and then limping for the rest of the game. Or getting NDd into by someone tabbing back in etc. Im all for more penalty to getting shot, but not after getting patched up.

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I disagree. Imagine being 15 minutes into a 2 hour mission and falling off a high wall or clipping through stairs, breaking a leg and then limping for the rest of the game. Or getting NDd into by someone tabbing back in etc. Im all for more penalty to getting shot, but not after getting patched up.

 

Almost my thoughts.Even taking away the glitches and off-the-game incidents that can happen, there is still the event to get crippled permanently even after a medical intervention which is perplexing as it is. Wouldnt you be removed as a casualty if not on the direst of circumstances in RL? Wouldnt a player be a dead weight to any unit he gets attached to? What could he possibly do, except guarding the proverbial fuel barrel? If this were the kind of community that plays one mission for a whole gaming night one could try and find a niche where he could be helpful, but given our missions are time limited i dont think that there would be any space for handicapped players around, expecially if there are ending condition regarding casualty percentages. I am not completely convinced, TBH. 

Edited by Maffa

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I'd love to see fractures being curable with splints, as well as a serious decrease in stamina for people who've lost a lot of blood and/or taken a lot of morphine. Currently you can pretty much run around like nothing happened after losing like 2l of blood, and then you suddenly pass out.

 

A permanently incapacitated state could be cool, but requires a lot of work and customization options for what the player can actually do in that state (respawn, switch to spectating, would he be conscious or unconscious) and would the game treat him as alive or dead for end condition purposes, among other things. A way of figuring that state out would have to be given to medics too, so they dont spend time trying to revive someone who can't be revived. Possibly too much work for what it'd add to gameplay at this point.

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I'm hoping these changes improve the complexity to entertain/specialise medics - they are basically enjoying/playing a subsystem of ArmA 3 that's designed.

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The cardiac arrest sounds much too gamey.  Is this a thing?  Can soldiers be revived from cardiac arrest and have enough strength to run around a few minutes later.  I simply don't understand medicine enough to get my head around having very serious wounds and then with first aid being able to get up and continue fighting.

 

Sure. Put surely not from bloodloss. If Cardiac arrest happens because of a heart failure, then the patient will be quite alright within minutes, if the treatment happens quick enough. 

Cardiac arrest caused by trauma, would require quite severe damage to the body, and the patient would normally have a lower BP, but also a tendency to greater damage to the neural system due to lack of oxygen.

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I found the legacy module was alright, apart from the layering of functions and add-on scripts that were hurting performance, which will be addressed obviously. I feel the cardiac arrest function wont really affect milsim/realism servers as they would just set this anyways, but it is slightly weird that ACE would cater to that type of gameplay.

 

The biggest complaint I had with the medical system (and ArmA 3 in general) was the damage to AI, which I assume is a result of the A3 system of handling specific body part damage and thresholds. The number of times I have put 3-4 rounds of 5.56 at center mass at something just wearing rags and having them run away like nothing happened really kills the experience.

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So far Medical_Rewrite is done to about 38% (which says nothing, as the percentage raises and falls with each ticket assigned and all tickets being of different complexity).

I spotted options for basic_medication and advanced_medication. Unsure if these will be removed with the new functions suggested by the team or if a basic/advanced approach to medication will be kept.

If you can read code (or partly can) and are interested in the Medical Rewrite register on github and sign up for the Medical_Rewrite notifications. Guess thats currently the best way to keep up with all the preps.

 

KR Pax

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It'd be cool for those of us with some RL medical training but as a whole, the cardiac arrest thing is a little too gamey. I'd be fine with treating for broken limbs and a decreased mobility from those.

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