Jump to content
PaxJaromeMalues

UK vote on leaving EU

Recommended Posts

"If you look up the United Nations Human Rights Convention you will see that virtually all of the UN members have agreed to this set of rules, they state that you cannot deny a refugee the right to cross the border and you cannot punish a refugee for using otherwise illegal means of crossing the borders. These are rights that are extremely important in wartime, and something i would expect an ex Yugoslav to appreciate more than the average person."

 

I was born in 93, so no exYu for me, but aside from myself and parents, my whole family was in border area between Dvor na Uni and Hrvatska Kostajnica when tanks started rollng by (literally). They knew it years ahead it will and when it did, they packed up and left. Them and every other refugees left to various countries peacefully. I'll bet you haven't seen mass protests, marches, burnings of hosts' facilities they built you, rape and everything else these "refugees" are doing. So I'll ask you kindly, do not compare them to exYu refugees, you'll insult them at the very least.

 

 

As for German government handling pension money, I didn't say it went exclusively one way, but mentioned it as an example as it all goes into a single budget.

 

I'll stop my discussion as it seems you do not have a complete picture of topics I mentioned, so it's hard to talk. I'd have to write too much to explain it all.

Share this post


Link to post

I completely believe that Greece would have went bankrupt if the ECB have not bailed them out. Though the question is also if the banks would have lend them that much money, if the ECB in backup.

I'm pretty sure Greece is as bankrupt as it gets, no?

Share this post


Link to post

I'm pretty sure Greece is as bankrupt as it gets, no?

Then you clearly does not know what bankruptcy is  !

Share this post


Link to post

I'm fairly sure country/regional bankruptcy shouldn't be compared with our own individual experiences. Personal bankruptcy doesn't usually lead to a large loss of life.

Share this post


Link to post

Well its been rather enlightening to see what Europeans thought of the EU. I always thought it was kinda neat.

Share this post


Link to post

Well its been rather enlightening to see what Europeans thought of the EU. I always thought it was kinda neat.

 

Some Europeans. Do not take the opinions expressed here as representative of the entirety of Europe.

 

Anti-EU people tend to be more vocal than pro-EU people.

Share this post


Link to post

Some Europeans. Do not take the opinions expressed here as representative of the entirety of Europe.

 

Anti-EU people tend to be more vocal than pro-EU people.

I agree, opinions regarding EU, differs widely within the different European countries, but also differs widely between European countries. 

 

Also have to agree with you in that anti-EU people, most like because they have most to win with the discussion being brought up. 

Share this post


Link to post

Let's see if Scotland votes for independence on the next vote. I heard they want another vote if UK leaves the EU.

Edited by znoop

Share this post


Link to post

Scotland? Let's see if London wants secession from the Union. I heard the same thing about them.

Share this post


Link to post

#MercianRevolution
No seriously though, I'd rather everything went to hell. Especially if what passes for democracy got a useful overhaul. 

Not that the parliament actually has to go through with Article 50 and secede from the union... seeing as how the polls were so close; though if they did that there'd be a bunch of pissed off nationalists.

Mind you, I reckon the second referendum will come after paid-for politicians negotiate a new deal and this whole charade can be over and done with.

Edited by Lexi

Share this post


Link to post

The reasons we left the EU are demonstrated by this thread:

 

1) We gave everyone a vote;

 

2) It's really complicated and almost no-one on either side properly understands what they are talking about (in which I include myself).

 

The general populous have neither the time, experience or expertise to make a informed and objective assessment of matters like this. Its why we elect representatives with access to massive resources to make decisions for us.

 

Personally, as far as I understood things, I think there are massive problems with the way the EU operates and the leaders in Brussels massively lost touch with what a large proportion of the population in Europe wanted. The rejection of treaties and rise of anti-EU populists in other EU states should have served as a warning. However, I think we should have stayed in and tried to change things for the better, particularly as I can't see us negotiating trade deals etc that give us as good an outcome without contributing anything ourselves. I think many people are going to be reminded that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

"The EU can be annoyingly dysfunctional at times, but it is vastly superior to anything that we've had previously."

Superior? like in what field?
 

"There is basically nothing to be gained for Any EU country in leaving EU, only the loss of a giant (almost) customs free internal market, access to a giant police intelligence network, as well as access to countless other subsidies."

Well leaving the EMU would benefit some.
From a financially standpoint,alone, there is a lot to be gained.
From a democratic standpoint aswell.
The EU is a consulting community, legally it is only allowed to advice, the institutions that enfoce things like troika are not the EU.
Leaving the EMU will benefit any weak and small country, that cannot contribute to the EU/EMU expectations and it would have benefited greece until this day, if they had left the EU since troika entered the stage.

 

 

This is of no relevance to the UK and is largely inaccurate:

 

The UK isn't in the EMU - it has the pound.

 

The EU is not a 'consulting community' - its treaties and regulations are directly enforceable by the courts of its members states; directives are required to be transcribed into national law, with the same effect. A failure to do so is dealt with by the European court which has the power to levy fines etc.

 

The Troika (which includes the EU commission and the ECB), is not a formal group and has no powers beyond that of its individual members. It is only relevant to countries who received an EU bailout, so not the UK. It is a negotiating block, nothing more, nothing less. It's power stems from the fact that the countries receiving bailouts are/were dependent on the ECB and the IMF to avoid bailouts. I cannot force conditions on anyone, but it can refuse to provide money if the country does not accept the conditions attached.

 

Financially - well I am no economist, but the overwhelming consensus is that the UK benefits more the direct rebate it received, its share of EU funds and from growth generated from being in the EU (and the taxation upon it) than it will from leaving and keeping the contribution. Sadly, both sides were particularly prone to exaggerations/out right lies in this area, so it is hard to be too definitive.

Edited by IAJT

Share this post


Link to post

Let's see if Scotland votes for independence on the next vote. I heard they want another vote if UK leaves the EU.

 

You can't have a referendum every 2 or 3 years, this isn't how these things work, I don't think the Scots are going to see another referendum about leaving the UK in this life time.

Assuming they will manage to break away from the UK, I hear Spain will likely block their bid because of Catalonia.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...