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Aphex

An observation

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I'm gonna start off by letting you know i haven't played Arma or with UO for over a year. I joined the military, went through training and then immediately deployed with no chance to come back.

 

I'll be getting back stateside soon and want to come back to UO and the Arma community.  I started looking into the current state of the A3 community. With A3 the entire Arma community has grown massively.  When I left one year ago UO would average 20-40 people playing a night. With the A3 influx I expected UO to grow as well, but that is the opposite of what I observe. I don't play on the servers for obvious physical limitations but looking at Game-tracker, the server looks to be averaging 10-30 people a night. Maybe people are just playing other game but its hard to deny that the Arma player-base has shrunk.

 

Other communities have grown while UO has shrunk. Looking at places like r/findaunit and Armaclans.com I cannot find UO anywhere. Why are we so hesitant to advertise. When i did play actively there certainly a disdain for new guys and immature players and i fully understand that many regulars want to limit randoms to a degree, but doing so has hurt the player-base at the bottom and the top. 

 

I made this post to ask the regulars and officers to reconsider their stance on randoms and try to encourage new member to enter the community by advertising and being friendlier to new guys. Or maybe my observation is completely wrong in which case I should just go to hell and contribute nothing to the community.

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The problem is the other way around. The random FNG's have essentially managed to outnumber us and continuously managed to be so useless at basic stuff, that they have basically made the rest of us loose interest.

The problem you are addressing stems from the fact that there are barely anyone playing because a lot of the new people do not want to take responsibility so they only show up when older players are playing and let us run things for them.

Further since the older players have lost interest in being the only ones on the server that knows how to do anything, they have also stopped making the high quality missions we used to have, because they do not want to play them, or they know that the current player base is overall too incompetent to even finish them, or at least follow the intent of the mission maker. This has lead to newer people making missions, but they keep failing on simple stuff like how to place the AI in a meaningful way, or even how to make meaningful objectives.

Thus the older players have even less interest in showing up and show up less. So what you are looking at now is an ongoing yearlong cycle of the above.

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TVT30_UP_is_Kill_v2.pbo

 

1401026933924.png

 

 

It's the time of year when people go back to school and stop playing video games for a while. It'll pick back up over time

Edited by Wolfie

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Wow. It's amazing how a point of view can differ. I wouldn't imagine either of the above posts were talking about the current UO. Near the end of A2 there was a lot muck and blame thrown at regulars but currently the gameplay is solid. It seems that there is almost never any Derp on the primary anymore. And the poorest missions now are much better than the worst missions of A2 . I see players helping new guys all the time.

 

I will agree that UO is not actively trying to build high populations on the primary through advertising. Seems that tactic attracts people who come here and then complain that they want more trigger time or they are bored.

 

If you want to play ARMA3 tactically based on teamwork jump on and see for yourself. I think UO gameplay is better than ever.

Edited by Jimbo

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Even when I am not by the request here, my two cents from an active player in general and on UO for the past months:

 

The arma community has grown, yes, but the people that know they are looking for better gameplay did not much grow.

There are still players that are looking for better gameplay, but dont know where to find or what it actually would look like.

This is a big transitioning process.

If you look into other groups where they have 200 or more members, with mandatory training and operation every week,

they still have only 5 to 40 players during 24 hours and half of it is not much populated.

They have so called recruiting servers where chain of command, tactics and realism are not priority to make themselve

interesting to new players, but the teanplay is horrible, if there even is that.

And the other 150 players dont join the server as it is only fooling around.

 

Yes you can make the public server more friendly, reduce the modpack or even completely deleted ( what happened back in TG ).

The outcome though, in my opinion would be that the regular players show up less to format teamplay or gameplay to UO

standards, aswell as the regulars and so on.

 

conclusion: you can win more new guys, but you will loose regular guys, when the quality is not the focus.

 

Atm I see serious teamplay on the primary, everytime I am on and thats why I am going on it. While the numbers

increased unusually during the week in last two weeks.

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If you're looking for quality gameplay then why not make it a closed community, introduce mandatory training and by doing so, encourage the UO veterans to come back and play.

If you see someone whose attitude is hurting the gameplay why not talk to him and either help him improve or show him the door? You can't have both quality and quantity without doing anything.

 

This is what I imagine a Regular would be capable of doing - deciding whether or not someone should be given the privilage of staying around.

I'm sorry, but with an open community you WILL have plenty of people coming in who just don't fit into the charter rules and their attitude towards teamwork and self-improvement is questionable.

But then even if someone wanted to improve, there are far too few training opportunities, and since a lot don't even want to visit the forums for various reasons, they wouldn't even know about any.

 

There's plenty of work to be done, if I can help in any way, as a training assistant or otherwise, let me know so that we can make the A3 server a place where UO veterans want to spend their time again.

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I usually try to avoid these threads, but I will give a little bit of input.

 

We have been VERY slow to adopt to ArmA 3 for a number of technical reasons with early ArmA3 content breaking on every update.  In addition to the technical reasons we have been looking at revamping our core expectations out of our playerbase and what we expect on the server before we start to advertise ourselves out as something that I feel comfortable in promoting.   There is no point in promoting something we ca not deliver on.  I would rather not lie to the public and say, come to UO we have the best tactical play available.  That would inexcusable to present such a statement much less expectation when I do not feel that we are able to deliver on that at present.  Those that would show up expecting that level of gameplay would be disappointed to say the least.

 

We are starting to get a very active mission development cycle again and new mission makers are becoming more mature in their ability to create missions.  Having a very strong base of missions that are mature in development is essential for the playerbase to perform on and deliver any expected level of tactical play.   Repeating the same missions over and over again in a single night gets a bit old for many players.  It is very hard to keep players interested in the gameplay if we do not have missions.

 

UOTC is going under a number of developing changes in conjunction with our PR department, to give new players and existing players a better outlet for our classes, not just in game but on the web or in video formats in the months to follow.  These resources will be presented both to the community internal and external freely, and should be of benefit to players of all skill levels, those returning, current or new to our community.  

 

For most of the reasons above this is why we are not actively advertising and exposing ourselves to external sources at this time.

We will continue to run in community events and the occasional cross community events in the future as we continue to gain traction in ArmA 3.

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We are starting to get a very active mission development cycle again and new mission makers are becoming more mature in their ability to create missions.  Having a very strong base of missions that are mature in development is essential for the playerbase to perform on and deliver any expected level of tactical play.   Repeating the same missions over and over again in a single night gets a bit old for many players.  It is very hard to keep players interested in the gameplay if we do not have missions.

There are two qualities I believe set The United Operations apart in A2.

The fact that Union Operations is a completely open community, and the sheer quality and variety of the a2 modpack and missions, and more importantly, those two COMBINED, as something that was *rarely* found anyplace else.

No muss or fuss with applying, and trying to justify yourself to a virtual community. Download the mods, show up on the server, and you can play great content with players of above average skill and tactical understanding.

With the continuing addition of new mod content allowing greater versatility in the simulation of conflicts both real and fictional, and the increasing number of active mission makers, and vastly increasing number of available missions, I believe that Union Pacific will have this winter of discontent finally made into glorious summer.

Edited by S4dGuyInSn0

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The problem is the other way around. The random FNG's have essentially managed to outnumber us and continuously managed to be so useless at basic stuff, that they have basically made the rest of us loose interest.

 

The problem you are addressing stems from the fact that there are barely anyone playing because a lot of the new people do not want to take responsibility so they only show up when older players are playing and let us run things for them.

 

Further since the older players have lost interest in being the only ones on the server that knows how to do anything, they have also stopped making the high quality missions we used to have, because they do not want to play them, or they know that the current player base is overall too incompetent to even finish them, or at least follow the intent of the mission maker. This has lead to newer people making missions, but they keep failing on simple stuff like how to place the AI in a meaningful way, or even how to make meaningful objectives.

 

Thus the older players have even less interest in showing up and show up less. So what you are looking at now is an ongoing yearlong cycle of the above.

Ah but we see the crux of the problem right here godhand. To put it bluntly, you and the people you purport to be 'older' players dislike anyone new that doesnt have the same mindset as you or doesnt have years of experience, military or game. You maintain a cold, aloof attitude to newbies; your post even shows this. It is disgusting how you think your clique of 'older' players are the masters of everything UO, from missionmaking to ability within the game, and to see you make generalisations of how everyone that came after you to be shit and to make shit content.

 

Also there are reasons why there are people at UO afraid to take responsibility. People are afraid to step up because they are afraid of being shouted at over the internet because they fucked up. They are afraid to step up because they dont want the cold and aloof attitude because they just got here a week ago.

 

Its good to see that all of what i said is less and less relevant by the day now that you older players have decided us plebs arent worth your time.

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 People are afraid to step up because they are afraid of being shouted at over the internet because they fucked up. They are afraid to step up because they dont want the cold and aloof attitude because they just got here a week ago.

 

This is very very VERY unfair to be directed at the likes of Godhand. You may be right about some members of the community - I have not had the time to play in a long while (except a brief encounter with 16AA #Sperg) so cannot comment. Speaking personally for Godhand though, I know that he does indeed have high standards, but he never publicly shoots down anyone who tries to lead. He may rant to us in Skype, but he and others like him will generally be constructive with giving criticism.

 

 

Onto the main topic:

Last time I played ArmA my overriding feeling was one of boredom. Personal skills are actually a little better than they used to be (the basic principles were there although there will always be room for improvement), but we were back to clearing out a town of all enemies with virtually the same plan every time. There was never the atmosphere of days gone by, when we've found ourselves surrounded after air support arrived, or when I've been in command of a section in blocking positions, finding out that we've set up around an enemy LP/OP, taking 5m contact and slowly getting cut off, desperately calling to the PL for help or to withdraw and being denied (damn you Ratlover). I don't pretend to know how to counter it - but it was just boring.

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This is very very VERY unfair to be directed at the likes of Godhand. You may be right about some members of the community - I have not had the time to play in a long while (except a brief encounter with 16AA #Sperg) so cannot comment. Speaking personally for Godhand though, I know that he does indeed have high standards, but he never publicly shoots down anyone who tries to lead. He may rant to us in Skype, but he and others like him will generally be constructive with giving criticism.

Yes, I know. I may have created confusion by using you in the plural form. I understand that Godhand has been one of the people leading the drive in teaching people how to play here, and has made some of the best teaching material UOTC has ever had on almost all aspects of the game. Yet I still think the way he worded his posts displays a dislike to newcomers. Maybe it's just getting jaded, like all of the people that came here a while ago.

Edited by KmO

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I have never disliked newcomers KmO, ad the literal hundreds of man-hours i have put into helping newcomers since i started here should attest.

But i do have a strong distaste for anyone who show up at a community that tries to play realistically and tactically, without putting in any effort before hand or during their time here at actually learning what that entails. Especially since as you mentioned the materials for learning these things are available in abundance, even if you dislike the stuff i have done, there are still many other places to at least get the basic idea of how it is done.

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I would rather not lie to the public and say, come to UO we have the best tactical play available.  That would inexcusable to present such a statement much less expectation when I do not feel that we are able to deliver on that at present.  Those that would show up expecting that level of gameplay would be disappointed to say the least.

 

We are starting to get a very active mission development cycle again and new mission makers are becoming more mature in their ability to create missions.  Having a very strong base of missions that are mature in development is essential for the playerbase to perform on and deliver any expected level of tactical play.   Repeating the same missions over and over again in a single night gets a bit old for many players.  It is very hard to keep players interested in the gameplay if we do not have missions.

 

UOTC is going under a number of developing changes in conjunction with our PR department, to give new players and existing players a better outlet for our classes, not just in game but on the web or in video formats in the months to follow.  These resources will be presented both to the community internal and external freely, and should be of benefit to players of all skill levels, those returning, current or new to our community.  

 

Tactical Play

To put it bluntly I have never seen UO as the best tactical play available. Nowhere near.

 

UO was the best place to come if you wanted to learn about with Platoon TTPs, RTO, artillery or mortars. And now with less and less active members and competition in terms of other communities, I don't see that anymore. I always thought UO lacked when it came to small stuff from gameplay. Jimbo was/is doing a good job in that way to bringing it up to standard with his Fireteam Operations. Small improvements done by many people is a large improvement.

 

I always thought UO was pretty darn rigid too in the way it did things. Like a 1980's infantry battalion. "Don't do it this way, do it my way!". Nonnegotiable people. People making a downright make-your-eyebrows-stand-up plan or order. You do what they say just because they say... Die because of it then log off for the night. Far from a "FNG" problem.

 

Mission Cycle

Why not an active 24/7 mission? ALiVE? The mission cycle can continue. The old linear missions are still there if people want to change. Zeus operated by specific GMs is available. You have a 24/7 mission awaiting you. Just get in and have fun. If the overall objective is say to clear the map in three days then that can be a large community event.

 

UOTC

UOTC I can see improving with some key members and initiative. Visual is definitely the way to go. Videos are great. Pictures and guides are a plus. It just keeps interest. I've always appreciated UOTC. It was one of the best parts of this community. And sometimes you just have to ignore baseless opinions. Some people you just can't please. So UOTC shouldn't aim to. They're not worth your time. UOTC shouldn't get into a rut. It should just keep progressing without taking two steps back for one step forward.

 

If you look into other groups where they have 200 or more members, with mandatory training and operation every week,

they still have only 5 to 40 players during 24 hours and half of it is not much populated.

They have so called recruiting servers where chain of command, tactics and realism are not priority to make themselve

interesting to new players, but the teanplay is horrible, if there even is that.

And the other 150 players dont join the server as it is only fooling around.

 

<edited advertising portion>

 

User received a warning point for this post.

 

Edited by kalohepirate
3.6 - Advertising, Recruiting, Spam,Vote Requests and Click Bait threads.

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I have never disliked newcomers KmO, ad the literal hundreds of man-hours i have put into helping newcomers since i started here should attest.

Again, I'm not denying the time you've put in and the content you've created. That would be extremely disrespectful, considering the tons of great shit you've done for UOTC. I was just replying to the post you've made, the undertone of which I found to be horrible.

 

But i do have a strong distaste for anyone who show up at a community that tries to play realistically and tactically, without putting in any effort before hand or during their time here at actually learning what that entails. Especially since as you mentioned the materials for learning these things are available in abundance, even if you dislike the stuff i have done, there are still many other places to at least get the basic idea of how it is done.

That's understandable. I don't want to slide this offtopic but this is what happens in any open community. It's just how they work. I still wouldn't support a B2E as it goes against what I understand to be core principles of UO of being open.

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@Delta38

 

"If you're looking for quality gameplay then why not make it a closed community, introduce mandatory training and by doing so, encourage the UO veterans to come back and play.

If you see someone whose attitude is hurting the gameplay why not talk to him and either help him improve or show him the door? You can't have both quality and quantity without doing anything."

 

the subject now is not how to improve teamplay ( which would improve being closed and with mandatory trainging, besids that some people would like ), but how to bring more players into it.

Maybe it would work out, but I dont think so.

 

It is difficult, when you have a regular player base with the same mindset, you are backed up from, if the majority on the server is supporting or tolerating the lower quality mindset, you will

have problems to make that clear at the time or after the mission the infliction occurs.

 

"So do any of you have an idea of how to "deal" with players who are bad at the basics and don't want to improve?"

 

I think that this is very common sense, talk to a regular, complain about him on the forums, even though I think that should be the last resort and only be done when there is a big impact on this lack of

knowledge. Maybe someone else should answer this more in detail.

 

@km0

 

your post towards godhand I find inapporiate and exaggerating, even though I dont know him better as I didnt really play with him.

 

@rye

 

*disappointed*

Edited by kOepi

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So do any of you have an idea of how to "deal" with players who are bad at the basics and don't want to improve?

 

B2E oh wait...

 

It's a problem this community has grappled with for years now.

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Yeah I did not advertise, I stated what other communities do differently, especially the one I know internally, and how UO could learn from it. This included a systems similar to barrier of entry, the way training is held and a tiered/specialized approach (as opposed to "regular" versus "non-regular"). As well as how missions, streaming, Youtube and events are organized to keep interest.

 

Shack Tac and Spearhead Gaming are two prominent examples I used. AUSARMA is another, which is now nonexistent due to the owner ignoring the community. Examples, not advertising.  Because these communities keep a player base and keep tactical play. The exact issues UO is facing. Give me another warning point to confirm how bad this community has really gotten will you?

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I am glad to hear that the quality of gameplay has improved and that is most certainly a more important aspect before population. UO (to me) is unique in that is is the only place i know of where there is no barrier to entry, large population, 24/7 gameplay, and IMO the BEST "milsim" (without ranks and other bloated bullshit) server in the Arma community. I am glad to know that the transition to A3 is still not 100% complete, that was something i was concerned might kill UO when I left. 

 

Barring any personal attacks and negative attitude you all bring up great points. The general argument is between how older players and newer random should interact and the standards and knowledge new people should enter this community with. When i came to UO i had only played on your general run of the mil wasteland, dayz, patrol ops server. I had zero experience with organization structure but due to very helpful leadership and UOTC I stuck around and loved UO and am proud to be one of the disgruntled "older guys" (2+ years). When I team led i made sure to identify any new members so i could help guide them and also forgive them for mistake that they WILL make. Some of course had no interest and simply wanted to rambo. But those who have no interest are not the ones that matter and should not ruin it for the other new guys, they can be dealt with easily and quickly. 

 

Instead of blaming the new guys for shitting on the server, we should look at ourselves for not teaching and guiding them the unique standards by which UO operates. Many people come here thinking this just another rambo server and if we, the older guys/girls, are not there to correct them then that is all the server will grow into. There is no question that we want the level of quality to remain. Growing in size will of course cause a drop in that quality, but we have to be there to train and guide back on track. And if you're not prepared to give new players the tools and knowledge to grow then the regulars are the only one that will be left in a few years. 

 

You cant recruit1 regulars, only newbs.

 

UOTC is doing a great job, but where it really counts is that first mission a person plays on our server.

 

 

 

P.S. Is tac-tuesday still around?

 

1For lack of a better term.

Edited by Aphex

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P.S. Is tac-tuesday still around?

 

1For lack of a better term.

 

Nope, Friday / Saturday / Sunday are the primary play times. That can of worms hasn't been opened in over a year.

 

 

Shack Tac and Spearhead Gaming are two prominent examples I used. AUSARMA is another, which is now nonexistent due to the owner ignoring the community. Examples, not advertising.  Because these communities keep a player base and keep tactical play. The exact issues UO is facing. Give me another warning point to confirm how bad this community has really gotten will you?

 

 

Wow. I think it's best we just glass over this.

Edited by HeadShot

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we have been looking at revamping our core expectations out of our playerbase and what we expect on the server before we start to advertise ourselves out as something that I feel comfortable in promoting.  

 

There is no point in promoting something we ca not deliver on.  I would rather not lie to the public and say, come to UO we have the best tactical play available.  

 

That would inexcusable to present such a statement much less expectation when I do not feel that we are able to deliver on that at present.  Those that would show up expecting that level of gameplay would be disappointed to say the least.

as a foreigner and somebody who wanders around lots of arma communities, i guarantee you that United Pacific is actually is THE best tactical community around.

 

you guys need to get out from your usual snobbery and extremely high expectations, as the picture around far from what you expect. and it's rather sad picture

 

seriously, even at this poit UP is outclassing everything that is currently exists, but you don't know that because you only sit here, so you guys have ALL the rights to claim to be the best tactical community in arma, probably worldwide

 

the only people may have an opinion like UP is not good enough are the people who don't play anywhere else. seriously.

 

take my word on this one

Edited by n2-

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Wow. I think it's best we just glass over this.

 

Glass over what exactly?

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Please stay on topic to the thread's original topic.  If there is a need for a secondary discussion either take it up with the individual parties in private message or create a new discussion thread.

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