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Fox D

Actions on Casualty/First Aid

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First of all the traditional flow chart.

 

This post is about WHAT you should be doing. To see HOW to do it and what to use reference Verox's post here

http://forums.unitedoperations.net/index.php/topic/25081-advanced-medical-system/?do=findComment&comment=302351

 

 

pgdbLnK.jpg

 

 

A note on this flow chart the 1/2/3 represent T1/T2/T3 which in ACE is represented by Red/Yellow/Green

 

So we begin

 

Are you under Effective Enemy Fire? (Effective Enemy Fire being fire that prevents you from continuing with your mission)

 

If so - FIGHT ON. The only way you can help that casualty is by removing the threat and securing the area

 

You are NOT under Effective Enemy Fire - Continue....

 

Actions on Casualty

  • A - Assess - Assess the situation, how was the casualty caused? It is it safe for you to render aid? Remember YOU ARE NO USE TO THE CASUALTY AS A CASUALTY YOURSELF

 

  • C - Communicate - Up/down/left/right, in short, tell everyone! Use both voice and any radio you have. Shouting "Casualty" is sufficient but adding in your element can add vital information "Casualty, 2 section!" (This is where things like repeating messages come into their own)

 

  • T - Triage - Begin your assessment of the wounds to the casualty/casualties, sort them on urgency and mark them! (Red/Yellow/Green)

 

Treatment

  • C - Catastrophic Bleeds - USE TOURNIQUETS! Deal with any heavy bleeding immediately

 

  • A - Airway - Check the Airway, clear if required (Not yet implemented)

 

  • B - Breathing - Check breathing (ref the flowchart for numbers)

 

  • C - Circulation - Check for further minor bleeding, recheck tourniquets and other bandages

 

  • D - Disablities - Broken bones etc (Not yet implemented)

 

  • E - Enviroment - Is the area secure/safe? Do you need to move the casualty/casualties?

 

Once you have dealt with the casualty continue to check their vitals and await a medic OR move them to the CCP.

Edited by Fox D

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I think "Finish the fight" should be stressed a bit more. If you are still actively engaged with the enemy, the most you should do it put on a tourniquet and drag the guy to cover, and even that only if you can do it without getting shot.

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I think "Finish the fight" should be stressed a bit more. If you are still actively engaged with the enemy, the most you should do it put on a tourniquet and drag the guy to cover, and even that only if you can do it without getting shot.

 

The flowchart goes over that but I'll edit to make it more explicit

 

Edit.... Fixed

Edited by Fox D

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I based this on stuff that was in CSE on the assumption that everything in there is/will be in ACE

 

If it is not I will change it at a later date

Edited by Fox D

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If you can make a custom one for ACE more power to you, as you can probably tell I just took a picture of mine :D

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First concept of the adapted Triage Card. Not sure if the pulse values are correct under ACE3, I just copied them from Fox's picture.

Looking for feedback.

 

 

X5WPIBy.jpg

 

 

As I already told you somewhere between 6 and a dozen times the first 2 steps are not in the right order.

They are incompatible with the ACE3 Advanced Medical System.

Also, as mentioned before, the step following to no effective enemy fire is wrong as well.

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Pax you don't have to be such an asshole all the time

 

A PM or a chat on TS would have been fine instead of a post like that

 

I'd like to see you contribute something for once, other than a headache on the forum

 

Besides, the first step is fine, if the person is walking then they can give self aid so you don't need to do Triage them. Let them ask for help if they need it.

 

If you have nothing nice/constructive to say then say nothing at all.

 

I don't have a huge amount of experience with ACE medical yet but that card is based off of a real one. And since ACE is supposed to be a realism mod it should apply.

 

If you would like to contribute a better one feel free to do so!

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Pax you don't have to be such an asshole all the time

 

A PM or a chat on TS would have been fine instead of a post like that

 

I'd like to see you contribute something for once, other than a headache on the forum

 

Besides, the first step is fine, if the person is walking then they can give self aid so you don't need to do Triage them. Let them ask for help if they need it.

 

If you have nothing nice/constructive to say then say nothing at all.

 

I don't have a huge amount of experience with ACE medical yet but that card is based off of a real one. And since ACE is supposed to be a realism mod it should apply.

 

If you would like to contribute a better one feel free to do so!

 

I am not an asshole - believe me, me being an asshole looks different.

I am contributing in my own way, not necessarily here, as people in here usually tent to rip apart posts and contributions, that are useful, into flickershit and turn the whole thread upside down how every they want. Especially if there are certain people (no not necessarily me) suggesting something in the range of being subject to change they take it, while it is written their multiple times, for full and rip it apart instead of being constructive. How is one going to be willing to contribute to such an envirnoment? Tell me. Wanna know why I resorted to different contributions instead of makeing that UO seeder I was so eager to provide to this place, well say thanks to some people I encountered on Teamspeak on late nights.

 

The first step is not fine.

First and foremost, Triage is used in medical situations with overwhelming size to determine who is gonna life and who is going to die. That is what a triage system is about.

Everything else is a guide to treatment, while shit is able to be controlled.

It might be initiated by medical personal only, for reasons of incontrollable amount of casualties or shortage of medical personal or stock.

That is what I got tought in my medical apprenticeship. Triage is the most powerful way to maximize effeciency in (IRL) terrible situations with decisions that might appear unhuman to many observers.

 

Second, in the medical system a person can suffer heavy bloodloss while still being able to move and physicly react. My player character had it, other charakter had it which I treated.

Verox wrote "blood is vital" and he is a 100% right with this statement.

If yomeone is bleeding, the bleeding needs to be stopped ASAP as if you do not, you will have 9 out of 10 people becoming immidiate cases in a blink of an eye, that goes for charakter that are able to move the same it goes for the ones that are not.

Therefore that first part i currently not correct. The CCP will turn into a red flag area as soon as you will catagorize people by their ArmA-abbility to move,crouch or what not. Making them scream that they need help adds anything to this, but nothing helpful at all.

 

I looked at his chart, saw an issue with it and posted it, how is this not consturctive? Or should have just went and said "ahhh luuk at this, this not helpful at all"?

 

 

Here: Feel free to comment

 

Actions on casualty NON-Medical Personell

 

Military Triage Medical Personell ONLY:

 

I tried to adapt this as good as for me possible to ACE3 and ArmA as a Military Simulation.

 

 

 

A mass casualty event overwhelms immediately available

medical capabilities to include personnel, supplies, and/

or equipment.

Effective mass casualty response is founded on the principle of

triage, the system of sorting and prioritizing casualties based on

the tactical situation, mission, and available resources. It is the

best means to establish order in a chaotic environment and the

best hope to provide the greatest good to the greatest number

within the limitations of time, distance, and capability.

 

Triage is a constant and dynamic process as casualties move within and through the system of care.

The ultimate goals of combat medicine are the return of the

greatest possible number of warfighters to combat and the

preservation of life and mobility.

The decision to withhold care from a casualty who in another

less overwhelming situation might be salvaged is difficult for any

physician, nurse, or medic.

 

Decisions of this nature are unusual,

even in mass casualty situations. Nonetheless, the overarching

goal of providing the greatest good to the greatest number

must guide these difficult decisions. Commitment of resources

should be decided first based on the mission and immediate

tactical situation and then by medical necessity, irrespective of

a casualty’s national or combatant status.

 

 

Immidiate:

This group of injured requires attention within

minutes to 2 hours on arrival to avoid death or major disability.

The procedures in this category should focus on patients with a

good chance of survival with immediate intervention.

 

Urgent:

This group includes those wounded who are in

need of surgery, but whose general condition permits delay in

treatment without unduly endangering life;

Sustaining treatment will be required

 

Delayed:

This group has relatively minor injuries (eg, minor

lacerations, abrasions, fractures of small bones, and minor

burns) and can effectively care for themselves or be with

minimal medical care. These casualties may also provide a

resource for manpower to assist with movement or potentially

even care of the injured. When a mass casualty incident

occurs in close proximity to a medical treatment facility

(MTF), it is likely that these will be the first casualties to

arrive, bypassing or circumventing the casualty evacuation

chain. Such casualties may inundate the facility leading to

early commitment and ineffective utilization of resources.

 

One class not mentioned in ACE is this one, the one is the hardest:

 

Expectant:

This group has injuries that overwhelm current

medical resources at the expense of treating salvageable

patients. The expectant casualty should not be abandoned,

but should be separated from the view of other casualties

and intermittently reassessed. These casualties require a

staff capable of monitoring and providing comfort measures.

 

 

- Pax

Is that contribution enough?

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First and foremost, Triage is used in medical situations with overwhelming size to determine who is gonna life and who is going to die. That is what a triage system is about.

 

No, Triage is about who to treat first, not deciding who is going to live, by deciding how injured a casualty is. Even if there is just one casualty, you still triage them immediately so as to give an accurate report to your commander about the state on the wounded.

Edited by Herbiie

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No, Triage is about who to treat first, not deciding who is going to live, by deciding how injured a casualty is. Even if there is just one casualty, you still triage them immediately so as to give an accurate report to your commander about the state on the wounded.

Reading this I feel the languag barrier coming up.

is "to triage someone" in english equal as "to determine his situation"?

 

If yes than "to triage someone" and the actual medical "Triage System" I am talking about are 2 completely different things.

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Triage system is to assign priority of care. To triage someone is to assess them then assign their priority based on their injuries.

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Triage system is to assign priority of care. To triage someone is to assess them then assign their priority based on their injuries.

helped alot, thanks verox.

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If you want to insist on bringing in real life triage then you always have to triage any casualty you get at any point. Since in major combat operations your triage does not only play into what you do with the casualty at the platoon level.

The casualty reports get sent up the chain with a triage report. Because this plays into the Company's own triage, weich plays into the battalion triage and casualty plan. This then plays into Brigades triage as well.

All these steps interconnect into the point of the triage: determining the amount of medical assistance the patients need vs the amount of aid available. Based on this analysis it is determined at battalion/brigade level who goes to a hospital, who goes to a field hospital, who will have to make do with Brigade aid-station, who will have to stay in Battalion aid station, and who should we even bother evacuating from the company CCP.

 

So yes in real life you triage everyone, and you should do that in Arma as well, but for totally different reasons. In arma we often use the medical system to save ourselves from situations that would have rendered the platoon/ company destroyed and completely combat ineffective, since a wounded cannot return to the battle anywhere within the time scope of a normal arma 3 session.

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No, Triage is about who to treat first, not deciding who is going to live, by deciding how injured a casualty is. Even if there is just one casualty, you still triage them immediately so as to give an accurate report to your commander about the state on the wounded.

 

For us, in an MCI, it's both who is treatable and who has a high liklihood of dying even with treatment. That's how you decide who you are going to treat first, by deciding who is not going to live anyhow. Sieve and sort based off injury, potential for injury, if they mobilize, if they are going to die, etc. Black tag those with no pulse, who require CPR, who are in traumatic arrest. That's to do entirely with our Medical Treatment Capacity (MTC). What can we do with what we've got, basically. Spend 20 minutes on one guy and neglect the rest? Heck no. And those who can treat themselves or move, go over there!

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