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Removal - Kevin Squeakers

Removal of Kevin Squeakers  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Removal of Kevin Squeakers

    • Yes
      13
    • No
      25


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Quick note from the ban guidelines. Kevin has 1 more ban remaining on the days scale (72hrs) and none on the weeks with a single ban in the months scale. If kevin were to get banned for anything more than a minor disruption it would be forced to be a 3 month ban regardless of what it was. If it was a minor disruption then the 72hrs will have been used up and all subsequent bans would be forced to 3 months/6months/perm scale.

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I think Kevin deserves a 6-month ban prior to being perma-banned.

I would agree with this. A long-term ban. If he messes up again, perm him.

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I've decided to vote no.

 

Until such a time as all involved parties are appropriately punished together, I don't think this is warranted. This rings a bit too closely to some temperament  issues I have historically had and do still have, to some degree. If there was a collection of people constantly trying to set me off on the server or in TS, it would work eventually.

 

@Kevin - No hard feelings about the "Kevin" reddit thread; just my sense of humor. Please grow up a bit, and learn to take your punches better. Do not hang out in that channel anymore if you are catching so much shit slinging from a younger crowd; there are other channels to hang out in with older and more mature crowds. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something.

 

@Seabass & Co, e.g. all the folks intentionally bothering him - shame on you. You will get yours soon, too. I hope you realize exactly how childish it is to goad him and then put up ban threads for him.

 

I think this is a genuine and perfect example of the age disparity at this community. A lot of us are in our mid 20's and 30's, and seeing this kind of behavior we can forget that this is simply high school melodrama; that most of the people involved in this are under the age of 18. The fact this crap spills over into our forums and to official polls is retarded.

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No.

 

Additionally, I feel that it is inappropriate (if not, cruel and unusual) to seek a permanent ban in this manner. The UO officers alone should deal with such things, banning should be procedural not adversarial. I consider this divisive and unhelpful.

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UO is not a democracy and doesn't fall under US Constitution, Geneva convention or anything else you try to quote other than UO Charter and SOPs.

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I've decided to vote no.

 

 

I think this is a genuine and perfect example of the age disparity at this community. A lot of us are in our mid 20's and 30's, and seeing this kind of behavior we can forget that this is simply high school melodrama; that most of the people involved in this are under the age of 18. The fact this crap spills over into our forums and to official polls is retarded.

At 45 I can still see through the high school melodrama. I choose to ignore all of that and am judging him based personal experience and what's in his review file. Let's not cloud this up with as a Seabass vs Kevin issue.

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So, most were well aware that Kevin’s next ban was going to be a perm.  In fact most knew it to the point where any wrong word he said would be responded with “someone get Slider to post a perm on him” (Slider being used as a reference to his previous ban).  Kevin’s last ban was posted purely because everyone knew his next would be a perm.

 

“He repeatedly threatens death and tells myself to commit suicide.” If we are seriously going to start banning people for threatening death then you may as well ban everyone in the Love cave who supported the burning barn incident, ban everyone in the Gulag, ban Zedic so much that you would have entire sub section of the forums purely dedicated to the amount of times he’s told someone to kill themselves and then enjoy our community sitting at a nice even number of 12 players who dare not mention the word kill for fear of ban.

 

“When asked to stop poking me he continued.” This I have no comment for until the logs are public, I will express my views on this if the Administrative staff decide to make them public, until then I will not.

 

I’m discussing this ban here because it is the reason this thread was posted.

 

Both of the main parties consistently harass each other and both were banned within a short period of time.

This seems punishment enough. As for the Regular who kicked off the incident that resulted in the ban, grow up or go away.

 

If Kevin does something worth a perm ban than perm ban him, this is not worthy of one.

 

For anyone who disagrees that Kevin is baited into hostility, reference Slider's post on a very recent Regular poll.

That alone highlighted that Kevin is targeted by both members and Regulars frequently without just cause.

Edited by j0zh94

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As aforementioned, I don't think that this warrants a perma-ban. Nevertheless, it is important to highlight that, despite being instigated sometimes, Kevin is constantly found in these situations due to his immaturity.

 

I believe that he is an easy target because he quickly escalates situations that could otherwise be ignored or handled in a more mature manner.

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Oh fuck off with this school yard drama shit. Kevin is an irritating person I try to ignore mostly, that doesn't mean he needs to be banned. People wind him up and get him to say stupid shit so they can try and ban him, he is a punching bag used by a number of different people.


 


Stick up a poll for an age restriction, which would solve a lot of this, and I'll give it some consideration, otherwise this is just going to enable more bullshit over “such and such said something nasty to me and now I have hurt feelings.”


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“When asked to stop poking me he continued.” This I have no comment for until the logs are public, I will express my views on this if the Administrative staff decide to make them public, until then I will not.

 

Pokes, PMs and channel messages are not logged by the server, they're logged exclusively by the client and it has to be enabled in the settings. Unless someone has these settings turned on (preferably multiple people as forging these logs is trivial) then you won't get a definitive answer.

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I'd say no ...

 

If people are constantly baiting Kevin, or 'teasing' (very fine line until you can use another word) him ...

Then don't come crying afterwards because he (over)reacts.

Just remember that you pushed him over the brink? Because it was funny? Because it was easy? Because you wanted to see what it would take today to get him to that point?

One could start to argue that Kevin isn't even at fault ... and we failed to be mature and respectfull?

 

But, yes, at some point you have to draw the line or atleast wonder how long it can continue to go on.

Even if baited (especially when so many warnings have already been given)(sorry Kevin, but learn to not play their game and hold the high ground, you'll always lose otherwise).

The previous bans are ... erm ... some seem a bit dubious, but the number of them can hardly be ignored (just or not).

Kalohe's experience, I can't ignore either.

 

Action ... reaction ... drama ...

 

Now , I haven't been on the server or on TS in over a year, so I can only read about this (bans, AAR's, etc.).

There are obviously still some things that Kevin needs to fix or get a handle on.

As far as I know him (not very well), he's rash, doesn't think before he says some things, suffers from tunnelvision when he gets going, overenthousiastic, etc.

We all had to grow up, learn and we all do it at a different speed with different backgrounds.

 

A permaban for something that happens in some TS-channel seems excessive ...

It's funny to tell Kevin to 'Shut up' once, maybe twice, maybe ... how many times, how many people have said that to him?

Most of the time in jest probably, sometimes not. Eventually the fun wears out.

 

(just clicked 'post')

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Pokes, PMs and channel messages are not logged by the server, they're logged exclusively by the client and it has to be enabled in the settings. Unless someone has these settings turned on (preferably multiple people as forging these logs is trivial) then you won't get a definitive answer.

 

Someone informed me they had been posted on the ban and sent me the pokes to read. I did not wish to comment until the GM's wanted them to be public.

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Quick note from the ban guidelines. Kevin has 1 more ban remaining on the days scale (72hrs) and none on the weeks with a single ban in the months scale. If kevin were to get banned for anything more than a minor disruption it would be forced to be a 3 month ban regardless of what it was. If it was a minor disruption then the 72hrs will have been used up and all subsequent bans would be forced to 3 months/6months/perm scale.

 

Voted no.

 

Problem will be resolved one way or the other soon.

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“When asked to stop poking me he continued.” This I have no comment for until the logs are public, I will express my views on this if the Administrative staff decide to make them public, until then I will not.

 

While I can't make the logs public as they were sent to me in confidence, I can confirm the accuracy of that claim. Quite simply, Kevin poked Seabass, Seabass poked him back telling him to stop, and Keven poked him again asking why. There were other pokes from previous days that I would easily call harassing.

Edited by Overlord

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   When I first started playing here some 3 years ago, the first time I meet Kevin he was rude, aggravating, hostile and insulting Unsurprisingly I didn't like him very much. Over some months of playing however, as I saw how Kevin was constantly harassed, teased and generally abused, I to admit that I would make fun of him, however I came to realize that perhaps his overly aggressive attitude was simply his way of dealing with the situation, and I believe he took it as well as you can expect from a 12-13 year old. So I began to have a little bit of respect for him, if only because despite the unrelenting harassment he has continued to play at this community.
    

 Fast forward to today and I think his attitude has improved greatly, however people seem to expect him to undue his behavior, behavior that has been developed over years of dealing with these "jokes", practically overnight. People say he needs to act with more maturity, and I believe they are correct, however I think we fail to realize just how young Kevin is, he must be what, 15, 16 years old by now? I personally am not sure just how much maturity you can expect to get from someone that young, especially when dealing with such a hostile environment, an environment he has been dealing with since he was barely a teenager. Perhaps the argument then is if Kevin is simply to young to play here, but that is a subject for another thread.
    

    He has been banned multiple times, and these ban have seemed to do nothing as evidence by his whopping 8 threads so far. I find this simply to be a indicator that the source of the problem does not lay with Kevin at least not entirely, but with the overall attitude of the community. The community that overall seems to treat him as their favorite punching bag. The amazing thing to me is, that despite being treated in many respects as some kind of second class citizen compared to everybody else he continues to play here.
    

   So to bring this long winded post to a close, it is clear to me that given the community's attitude
to punish Kevin, no matter the circumstances for his actions, he must quickly grow a maturity well beyond his
years. Therefore I support the passing of this poll.
  

     I hope Kevin gets permabanned from this community, because I believe now that he only stays here because this is
the only place he knows. I hope he will go on and find a community that treats him as an equal, that doesn't
use him as the school ground punching bag and scapegoat.
    
I believe he should be permabanned not because he is bad for the community
    
but because the community of United Operations is bad for him.

 

 

 

Edited by Dave1

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The user has, without me directly talking to him has harassed me and would would not stop, weather I try to calm him or ignore him, he seems to get way out of control on a mere "poking of the bear".

 

I would vote yes on this.

would abstain after talking to kevin

Edited by Nathan

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I have never been a fan of removing people from the community with polls. The rules are there for a reason, and when broken the user in question will be banned accordingly, and if the behaviour continues bans will escalate to the point of permanent (unless perm is required straight away because of cheating and mic spamming and other cases).

 

In this case Kevin has a 72hr, 3 Month and 6 Month ban time left until perm, but that's not to say all 3 must be used up to become permanently banned from UO. Based on the case a permanent ban can happen next.

 

As a GM, Kevin has been a source of problems that have frequently been reported to me, and I have witnessed Kevin's obnoxious behaviour. Kevin can be a good player, but I don't like the attitude I have seen from time to time. Now for this recent case I have not really payed too much attention to it and I let the ones handling the ban process it, and deal with it. It is too late for me to intervene at this point, but if harrasment of users and a bad attitude is the reason for this recent ban, I would have liked to have seen a 3 month ban put in place, because of prior bans and the fact that this is a repeat behaviour.

 

Now as for the teasing or goading aimed towards Kevin, this needs to cease immediately,. If I catch this in the act, the parties involved will be warned, documented, and possibly banned. Whatever jokes came of this in the past has run it's coarse and is no longer funny, but damaging as it does nothing more than create hostilities and poisons the enviroment with this immaturity. And just like poison in the blood stream, it needs to be remedied and removed.

 

The root of the problem stems from the same situation, the fact that some of you people spend too much time on the internet and on T.S to the point you are starting to have personality clashes with each other because of age , opinions, behaviour, pissing contest and the like and so on, and you people are getting on each others nerves and ruining relations. That's what happens. Perhaps if people spent some time away from T.S itself and stop getting on each others nerves 24 / 7, none of these issues would arise. Get off the internet and go ride a bike, take a hike, do something other than annoy each other on T.S while your cooped up in your room.  Your not being forced into this situation, your not being forced into a submarine where you have to stay in a tiny room staring at your ugly co-workers face for an X amount of time until you pick each other apart. Make a choice, make a decision as to if you want to be here and help contribute towards a fun time here at UO with people from all over the world, from all walks of life, or not and go participate in something else.

 

These issues are boiling over and are becoming a distraction for people like myself who just show up to play the game.  Emotion is starting to cloud judgement. Find the root of the problem, and avoid it, or put a stop to it, cease falling victim to the problem, cease creating the problem, knock it off.

Edited by Militant

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Even though this vote is technically compliant with all UO charter points and SOPs, it is a dangerous precedent if it passes.

 

Please don't vote yes.  If you care enough then don't be so lenient and allow the SOPs to do what they're made to do.

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Even though this vote is technically compliant with all UO charter points and SOPs, ..

Actually I would say that it's probably technically non-compliant (1.1).

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Kail, how is 1.1 related to the poll? Explain please.

 

Militant, +1 on this:

 

 

The root of the problem stems from the same situation, the fact that some of you people spend too much time on the internet and on T.S to the point you are starting to have personality clashes with each other because of age , opinions, behaviour, pissing contest and the like and so on, and you people are getting on each others nerves and ruining relations. That's what happens. Perhaps if people spent some time away from T.S itself and stop getting on each others nerves 24 / 7, none of these issues would arise. Get off the internet and go ride a bike, take a hike, do something other than annoy each other on T.S while your cooped up in your room.

 

 

 

Make a choice, make a decision as to if you want to be here and help contribute towards a fun time here at UO with people from all over the world, from all walks of life, or not and go participate in something else

 

 

 

These issues are boiling over and are becoming a distraction for people like myself who just show up to play the game.  Emotion is starting to cloud judgement. Find the root of the problem, and avoid it, or put a stop to it, cease falling victim to the problem, cease creating the problem, knock it off.

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Notwithstanding the drama that may be occurring on the Teamspeak server, I will speak to my experiences I've had with Kevin while in-game and in-server. As I said in the other thread, he would be overtly hostile towards others for no good reason than he may be in a command/squad leader position in-game. I don't understand why he feels the need to be hostile and force his squadmates to "hand over the fucking radio" straight off the bat to one of his squadmates in a TVT (I am forgetting who was in the DShK crew in the C-130 crash TVT a few days ago) that I overheard, or his hostility towards me as a Hind gunner when he was disappointed in not being the gunner when he selected the pilot slot "by mistake" - if you wanted to gun but selected the pilot slot, don't start bitching to your gunner at the start of the mission about how you selected the wrong slot. If Kevin didn't mean to, then he should have unslotted. Frankly, I think he also chooses whatever slot gives him the most potential to rack up kills in TVTs, regardless of competency, but that's another matter.

 

The fact is, the multiple times I've played with him in-game, it was something I did not enjoy doing, and it's gotten to the point where if I'm ever in the position of having to play under him in-game, I would rather reslot or disconnect outright - I don't have time for that kind of BS of dealing with a kid with anger issues. He needs to grow up and stop being immature and improve his demeanor, but his past ban history just reflects that regardless of how many times he may be apologetic, he'll just revert to his old behavior again in being disruptive in general.

 

Insofar regarding the vote, I can't say I agree with the method. I find that problem people will eventually sort themselves out one way or another. If Kevin is genuine about reforming his behavior, then he shouldn't expect to be banned again. As of yet, I don't remain optimistic in that actually occurring, so I figure the problem will sort itself out eventually.

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Agree with all of Militant's post.

Bans should be progressive discipline as outlined in the SOP, unless extenuating circumstances. I see no such circumstances here, The number of bans is irrelevant.

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Kail, how is 1.1 related to the poll? Explain please. ..

As I already indicated in a previous post, I believe bans should be handled procedurally and that I considered this poll divisive and unhelpful. Specifically, if you consider 1.1 of the Charter, this poll is neither friendly, respectful or courteous to the subject of the removal request and I'd hardly consider it a shining example of cooperation and teamwork either. Additionally one could also argue that the poll violates 1.8, since it directly attempts to circumvent  the SOP regarding ban processing.

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