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Deadshot

ARMA 2 OA ACE/ACRE Sniping

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I created this topic because I'm looking for some info and willing to help people with ACE Sniping. I learned to correct and use MoA and scope re-adjustments to zero in your scope properly. I've gotten bored of the regular thing of 2000 meter sniping, and I'm not sure if this is true but I have a theory I would like to test out. I was hoping some others who are intrigued by sniping and ballistics of bullets on ACE would like to contribute to this topic. Ok so here is my theory:

 

Basically sniping with the M107, TAC 50. or other sniper rifles capable of that range maximum of 2000 meters on the range table is good and all but after a while you get bored of it. I figured something out in my head though and I want to see if this is correct.  The TAC 50. and the M107 Sniper rifle systems both have the same scope adjusments on their in-game ACE range tables. I have been reading up on sniping and the effects of physics on a bullet in ARMA 2 ACE and real life. I figured that if you want to break 2000 meters with a sniper rifle on ACE you would have to make more adjustments than normal instead I figured that maybe if you add the previous ranges on a table like lets say you want to shoot with the TAC 50. at 2500 meters, you would add the 500 meter adjustments to the 2000 meter adjustments and come up with a 2500 meter adjustment, I could be wrong though and am planning on testing this theory out. If you want to help please do, just post your results on here if you could. Thats all I'm really looking for is posts of this kind of topic, no crap talk or anything just simple posts with other snipers/overwatch on here.

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Cephi is right, your understanding of physics is flawed. 

 

Additionally, eventually the bullet isn't going to have enough energy to penetrate armor or even flesh.

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Thx for the tips, so let me know when you have more I'll check it out, and I keep on studying more and more, but I watched a video on ARMA 2 ACE sniping a while back and have been using the formulas on there and they work for 2000m and below. Now if your willing to give me some ARMA 2 ACE info sure thing. ARMA 2 ACE and real life shooting are 2 different things. Thank you for your feedback though and please provide more if you have better info as wanted. I'm looking for actual formulas and statistics, not just a graph, if you want to explain physics to me, please do. Little known thing though, I've read at least 20 websites and read through all the info on sniping in real life too that way I would have a better understand for bullet ballistics, and physics affecting the bullet.  Thank you though for the info, and please next time you post something links to the actual programs and with the relevant rifles or scopes adjustments would be nice. The sniper rifles on ace adjust by 1/4 MoA (Minute of Angle) increments. 1 MoA is equal to 1/60th of a degree. If you want a site I went to this is a smaller site that read not one of the bigs ones though its here: http://nssf.org/video/facts/MOA.cfm .

 

I really do appreciate the information guys and I can crunch the numbers, but unless you have the actuall info and proof for your posts, then please find the info and proof otherwise I won't really acknowledge it that much. I'll investigate it sure, but not really pay much to it. I enjoy the help and please if I'm wrong about something explain it to me and I'll understand it or investigate more into it. Thank you for the posts.

Edited by Deadshot

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That would be something to think about...

 

After the bullet reaches its maximum altitude in the parabola, it would start to gain speed again due gravity but it would also lose some speed due air friction/drag. 

Now, if you fire at an angle of 45° or higher, the velocity of the bullet would be 0 on the vertex, right?

If this is so, once this bullet start falling down again it could gain more speed than a bullet fired at a smaller angle after it reached the its vertex.

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That would be something to think about...

 

After the bullet reaches its maximum altitude in the parabola, it would start to gain speed again due gravity but it would also lose some speed due air friction/drag. 

Now, if you fire at an angle of 45° or higher, the velocity of the bullet would be 0 on the vertex, right?

If this is so, once this bullet start falling down again it could gain more speed than a bullet fired at a smaller angle after it reached the its vertex.

The angle would be 90, directly upwards, assuming there was 0 wind. 
Bullets leave the barrel of a gun going much faster than their terminal velocity, if you were to fire directly upward into the air it would reach the top of it's arc then begin to accelerate back towards the earth at g. At a point of it's fall air resistance and gravity will balance out meaning the bullet will move no faster, it will fall back to earth at constant velocity (this is assuming it isn't tumbling but whatever, you get the idea.) While this is much slower than the bullet is moving at the muzzle, it's still appreciably fast, with some bullets it's enough to put a good dent in your head.

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The angle would be 90, directly upwards, assuming there was 0 wind. 
Bullets leave the barrel of a gun going much faster than their terminal velocity, if you were to fire directly upward into the air it would reach the top of it's arc then begin to accelerate back towards the earth at g. At a point of it's fall air resistance and gravity will balance out meaning the bullet will move no faster, it will fall back to earth at constant velocity (this is assuming it isn't tumbling but whatever, you get the idea.) While this is much slower than the bullet is moving at the muzzle, it's still appreciably fast, with some bullets it's enough to put a good dent in your head.

 

I'm aware of that.

 

But after making some drawings I realised that what I just said makes no sense because the only way for the initial muzzle energy to be dissipated and then let only gravity works would be to fire at 45 degrees or higher. Firing below 45 degrees will always left some of the initial muzzle energy on the bullet when it lands.

 

 

Thx for the tips, so let me know when you have more I'll check it out, and I keep on studying more and more, but I watched a video on ARMA 2 ACE sniping a while back and have been using the formulas on there and they work for 2000m and below. Now if your willing to give me some ARMA 2 ACE info sure thing. ARMA 2 ACE and real life shooting are 2 different things. Thank you for your feedback though and please provide more if you have better info as wanted. I'm looking for actual formulas and statistics, not just a graph, if you want to explain physics to me, please do. Little known thing though, I've read at least 20 websites and read through all the info on sniping in real life too that way I would have a better understand for bullet ballistics, and physics affecting the bullet.  Thank you though for the info, and please next time you post something links to the actual programs and with the relevant rifles or scopes adjustments would be nice. The sniper rifles on ace adjust by 1/4 MoA (Minute of Angle) increments. 1 MoA is equal to 1/60th of a degree. If you want a site I went to this is a smaller site that read not one of the bigs ones though its here: http://nssf.org/video/facts/MOA.cfm .

 

I really do appreciate the information guys and I can crunch the numbers, but unless you have the actuall info and proof for your posts, then please find the info and proof otherwise I won't really acknowledge it that much. I'll investigate it sure, but not really pay much to it. I enjoy the help and please if I'm wrong about something explain it to me and I'll understand it or investigate more into it. Thank you for the posts.

 

Try loading up the editor and start firing at targets above 500m with tracers. You'll notice the non linear increase on the amount of adjusting you need to do.

Edited by W-Cephei

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...

 

Aight, in ARMA they do their best to simulate bullets, each bullet spawns as an object and is subjected to physical calculations throughout it's flight in order to determine it's trajectory.

When you zero a gun in ARMA either the sight picture will move or the gun will move resulting in the bullet's starting angle being modified in order to achieve a longer shot, there is no special trickery as far as bullets go in ARMA.

 

Before we get into the physics, let's look at the maths. In the following paragraphs we'll be using a vaccum, meaning no other forces other than the one discussed is in use. An acceleration is expressed as a number and a unit, for this example we'll use 100m/s^2. This means, for every second the object will move 100m/s faster. This is called a linear acceleration and is applied to everything accelerating as long as it doesn't have a force being applied to it. So, 5 seconds after an acceleration of 100m/s^2 an object would be moving at 500m/s but will have traveled 1250m.

 

When you throw a ball horizontally on earth in real life it will eventually fall to the ground. It accelerates towards the ground at 9.81m/s^2 (varying extremely slightly depending on where you are), at the same time the ball decelerates in the horizontal direction at a rate defined by the physical properties of the ball and the environment it's moving through.

 

Now, let's look at our bullet scenario.

MerJQKu.png

 

We want to hit the target's chin but we only have the rangetable for the first 160 meters. So, using your logic we simply add on the first set of ranges to the next but we run up against a problem, when we fire we're hitting massively below. This is because the bullet moves progressively faster vertically as the distance gets larger as gravity accelerates it towards the earth.

 

And THAT is what you would have learnt if you paid attention in high-school physics. Because you'll never use physics in real life... right?

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IF you want a more simple awnser it is that. The reason there are no range tabels for more than 2000m is because after having gone 2000m even the .50 cal bullet becomes so unstable in its flight that the variables like wind and humidity start affecting the bullet so much that you cant really anticipate where it will go. that is why when ever you hear of shots being made above these distances by snipers it is done by shooting a round, then having the spotter tell the gunner how to aim in order to hit, because at that point the shooter might not even be able to see what he is shooting at in his scope.

 

So if you really are as hot shit of a sinper as you claim then, instead of this ´, you should properbly start looking intp some of the other stuff that is relevant to the sniper, such as signals and landnav, weapons/armor recognition, or start adding the extra layer of difficulty of infiltrating and exfiltrating in relation to the shot.

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So if you really are as hot shit of a sinper as you claim then, instead of this ´, you should properbly start looking intp some of the other stuff that is relevant to the sniper, such as signals and landnav, weapons/armor recognition, or start adding the extra layer of difficulty of infiltrating and exfiltrating in relation to the shot.

 

All of this is a lot more important as for the most part you won't be shooting anything as you'll be part of scout team that does exactly that: scout. And comms and other things are more important then shooting, even if you manage to slot it, and there aren't that many mission with those slots anyway.

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It doesn't matter at what angle you fire the rifle, bullet will never achieve its muzzle velocity due to air resistance, weight, drag coeficient, aerodynamic stability, etc.

 

 

 

No, go to high school, more specifically, grade 10.

I've already completed high school, obviously high school physics won't cover a bullet ballistics maybe you haven't kept up with School Board or how parents don't want their students to learn a bullet's physics as its fired from a gun. Hence a weapon/tool (the gun) and the projectile(the bullet) if a physics teacher was to teach that, it wouldn't go well. I've learned ballisitcs simply by viewing multiple websites featuring sniper rifle, and multiple types of gun and different bullet ballisitics and how it is affected by physics.

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I understand this Slider and Godhand, once again I'll state this I'm not a hot shit, I'm not cocky, i've gotten bored thats all and I want to explore more avenues for accuracy as a shooter. I also realize that a sniper's role is more than shooting I personally have created many missions with exfil and infiltration to the firiing position, and have worked in clans as a spotter/gunner. I spot and call out the individual threats and place markers on the map and give grid cords via radios, and keep score in real life with a note pad with the ranges of each target. I know this and I learned it by learning myself not with training from any other person. I was the guy that researched snipers, researched the responsibilities, practiced them, and know them. How I work and who I seem to be to your opinion is fine, its your opinion after all. Let this be known though, I don't see myself as the best sniper, or the best spotter, I'm simply trying to see where I can explore in the range of a sniper's marksman role, other forums I've been compiling information on different roles, so please understand that I'm not a simpleton and I do understand people. I realize most missions on here don't carry a sniper role, and that most don't like to give it to people but the simple fact is this, yes I like sniping, yes I enjoy it. Its a fun way to learn bullet ballistics and its interesting for me and i enjoy it. Simply put I'm wanting to learn more and get better, so if your not going to help contribute to this topic without judging people don't bother posting because really this topic isn't for people to be disrespectful. Simple as that take it or leave I don't care really, just make sure you polite and your fine. Thank you for the new info and I've read all the posts.

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OK so... I know this is aimed for ArmA 2 ACE... however check out this for ArmA 3 for Bullet Ballistics:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cix07R1vlhI

 

I watched this video you posted and I enjoyed watching it, it was very informative and understandable about how bullets velocity can change over time, as well as object can affect trajectory and overall velocity of the bullet as it punches through the material. If there is one for ARMA 2 ACE please let me know because I would like to download the mod and do a study on bullet velocity along with distance over time.

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I've already completed high school, obviously high school physics won't cover a bullet ballistics maybe you haven't kept up with School Board or how parents don't want their students to learn a bullet's physics as its fired from a gun. Hence a weapon/tool (the gun) and the projectile(the bullet) if a physics teacher was to teach that, it wouldn't go well. I've learned ballisitcs simply by viewing multiple websites featuring sniper rifle, and multiple types of gun and different bullet ballisitics and how it is affected by physics.

 

Ballistics exactly the same regardless if it's a ball or a bullet, there is literally no difference. I can guarantee you were taught about ballistics in high-school regardless if they used bullets in the example or not.

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^^ Verox, apparently, outside of Europe, they might not be. But education aside, balistics aren't about bullets, it's about bodies of mass in motion. If you haven't learned that, validity of this thread is in question. Also, if you aren't accepting opinions based on mathematical facts, what DO you accept? You wanted proof? We gave you it: common sense.

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OK so found this calculator:

 

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=13330

 

Not sure this will have the information your looking for...

 

However after getting into the code and how it calculates things.  If you really wanted to hit something at say 2500m with say a 12.7x99 (.50 BMG)... Due to bullet drop and everything, you would need to set it at 144.75 so say 145 MOA's.  This would also include zero wind.  So if you have to account for wind, well that adds another complication cause that adds to L<->R MOA's.  I am sure you know this.  However how lethal is this at such range... I am not sure.

 

You might want to check out these missions:

 

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=18035 or http://www.armedassault.info/index.php?cat=news&id=5988&game=1

 

along with the video that goes with it

 

 

it will help you see how lethal a round is at ranges.

 

I am not going to go into a ton of math cause I just don't know.  People way smarter then me have already given you the math to determine this stuff.  If you are just wanting to practise and try things I would suggest this "Shooting Range" mod and look at what it tells you.

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But seriously there is tons of material on the internet that covers ballistics, I really like the old 1940s US Army Training films.

 

There is also a lot of material on the fundamentals and TTPs involved in Sniper and Observer role.

 

A simple google search also brings up a lot of useful answers...

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Thank you for the information as I stated before, I read and studied all of it, I downloaded the Shooting Range Mission, and it works nicely, I also downloaded the Range calculator, and have found significant information on other posts. Some of these posts are actually quite helpful along with the information that has been provided. Also the theory I stated did work I was testing it out with some people on a server which I keep the server name disclosed unless I'm given permission to post, but otherwise yes my theory worked for the most part. The elevational adjustments using the range table theory worked, and I figured out how to deal with the negative elevational differences, which wasn't actually that difficutl. I then got on the server and proceeded to form my own range tables so now I have a note pad with me compiling all ranges up to 3000m at 100m increments. Doing non-fixed ranges isn't tough at all really quite a simple formula and so is the wind calculation formula, if anoyone wants to know these two formulas please ask me for them and I'll gladly post them for you. People who say that the idea of sniping at above 2000m is ludicrious are severly wrong in their statements. 1. The fact that it is more ample range for a overwatch/marksmen after firing their rounds on the targets for an AO it gives ample time for them to escape from there FP and make way to Extract. 2. Penetration does have a factor yes, but when using a 50. caliber round, those rounds don't lose much penetration over the distance. Even if it has maybe 50% of its inital bullet velocity it will still penetrate an enemy infantries chest cavity, or skull with efficiency, and also considering will still be able to shoot most walls including a concrete wall, just with a decrease in penetration and bullet velocity. 3. Most people would argue that being that far from the AO is not beneficial to your team, hence there is a reason why you learn to use a spotting scope as well and normally have a spotter with you along with map tools, and other necessitites. This still allows you to survey the AO and call out enemy troops, armor, HVTs, VIPs, and possible obstacles and casualty areas. You will still be able to relay these things to your team, I've already been able to do so in a couple missions after I found out my theory is actually sound.

 

Thank you all for the information and the arguements over logic, it is much appreciated and acknowledged. The information you have provided is being used and held under consideration, and I do know that Marksmen/Overwatch is not just putting a round down-range, its about surveying the landscape, figuring out your exfiltration and infiltration routes, calling back what you see to the main force that is working its way to the AO, and helping Aircraft, both rotary and non-rotary to hit armored targets and avoid Anti-Air armor. Marksmen/Overwatch isn't just sniping its a ton more than that.

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People who say that the idea of sniping at above 2000m is ludicrious are severly wrong in their statements. 1. The fact that it is more ample range for a overwatch/marksmen after firing their rounds on the targets for an AO it gives ample time for them to escape from there FP and make way to Extract. 

 

At the point that you need this extra time to extract, you're doing something horrendously wrong.

Yes, a bullet fired at that distance might still have enough energy to kill your target, but the risk you're taking in taking a shot like that is something I would simply call idiotic and not worth any possible benefits it could give you.

 

To be honest, I don't really know shit about the physics behind it, but I know that your justification for taking idiotically long shots it is just plain stupid.

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 People who say that the idea of sniping at above 2000m is ludicrious are severly wrong in their statements.  

What is your first shot hit probability above 2000m?

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What is your first shot hit probability above 2000m?

my first shot hit probablility at 2000m is 100% because of the amount of training I've done I know how to aim at that range and hit my target

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