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[Discussion] ARMA Barrier to Entry Concept

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I never thought your intent was to degrade regulars. Opinions never change anything discussion does however. It might not change it in a way you like it might cement a decision in opposition from your own.

 

To your points however. I think I see what you are getting at. You are concerned about the fact that the population of those who play on the primary and those who are regulars differ, although there is some overlap.

 

before I address that first I think your Texas analogy doesn't work. One is a organisation that has the power to dictate people abilities to live and function as human beings the other (UO) is a private community that has no baring on your ability to function in society. I am afraid I have to dismiss that out of hand.

 

Your other point has to me some merit.I can see and understand the concern. People who are not playing on the primary get to decide what happens on the primary. Alas the problem we are attempting to address is ultimately to bring the standard of play to a point that regulars who feel alienated can return. Essentially any vote on the matter as far as the regularship is to large part the question: "what can we do to get you to return to the primary?"

 

We are a community and friends essentially most of us want to see friends playing again and currently the main block to that is the influx of morons. 

 

I believe transparency as to what is going is good. I do think that the concern is more that other people have problems with the B2E (we seriously using that?) rather than people actually having a problem with B2E. I would encourage people to express there concerns of the subject rather than the concerns of others. This goes for yourself as well.

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I never thought your intent was to degrade regulars. Opinions never change anything discussion does however. It might not change it in a way you like it might cement a decision in opposition from your own.

I fully understand that my opinion isn't going to cause an instant change, and if it does change and my opinion influenced it GREAT. If there is a change that I don't like it isn't like I am going to sit here and have a hissy fit over it. I may not always have the popular opinion, and that doesn't really matter to me. I don't care if people disagree with me, that's why we have discussions such as this where I can argue my points, and you yours. 

 

 

To your points however. I think I see what you are getting at. You are concerned about the fact that the population of those who play on the primary and those who are regulars differ, although there is some overlap.

This is sort of my point, but my main concern is that there are far more regulars that do not play on the server, and who will get to vote on an issue that probably won't effect them, than there are players and donators who constantly play on the server, and see the issue that B2E is trying to fix firsthand, daily. I hope that explains it better.

 

 

before I address that first I think your Texas analogy doesn't work. One is a organisation that has the power to dictate people abilities to live and function as human beings the other (UO) is a private community that has no baring on your ability to function in society. I am afraid I have to dismiss that out of hand.

I am not meaning my "Texas" analogy to sound like Texas is deciding how people are going to live and what not, I am using it as a "size" comparison. Texas being a small part, compared to the rest of the U.S. but making big decisions for the entirety of the U.S. It's about size, not control.

 

 

Your other point has to me some merit.I can see and understand the concern. People who are not playing on the primary get to decide what happens on the primary. Alas the problem we are attempting to address is ultimately to bring the standard of play to a point that regulars who feel alienated can return. Essentially any vote on the matter as far as the regularship is to large part the question: "what can we do to get you to return to the primary?"

I was under the impression that we were not focusing so much to get old regulars back in the server, as we were trying to improve the competency, and game play on the server. Granted, having the old Regulars back would be AWESOME, I don't think that was the entire point of the concept in the first place. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

 

 

We are a community and friends essentially most of us want to see friends playing again and currently the main block to that is the influx of morons.

I totally agree. With this system, over time the "morons" will be flushed out which will lead to better players, and friends coming back.

 

 

I believe transparency as to what is going is good. I do think that the concern is more that other people have problems with the B2E (we seriously using that?) rather than people actually having a problem with B2E. I would encourage people to express there concerns of the subject rather than the concerns of others. This goes for yourself as well.

Transparency is always the best way to go, in my opinion. For the second part of that statement I completely agree with you. They way I see it, once this concept is announced publicly I would bet a dollar the majority of the people who will have a problem with it will be players who A. are the problem, and B. are too lazy to take a bit of time away in betterment of the server. As far as my personal concerns, I am worried that we will see a dip in numbers in the weeks/months following implementation (if it ever happens of course). My concern with that is, a lot of people are going to notice the drop in player count and will want to revert to before the concept was implemented. I strongly believe that in the long run the system will work, and there will be a noticeable increase in competency, and well rounded game play, but like I said this would happen after a spell of lower than normal player count. It is my hope that when/if the system does roll out people will take to it, and wont mind taking a bit of time away to better the server.   

 

Edit: Sorry for the wall of text

Edited by TripShot

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Sorry I was confusing things a little. You are correct about it not about old regulars but many regulars who do not play express the reason being a low quality of play. If the change would enable them to have fun again then they should be part of the discussion. Alas you cannot ask people if these changes happen will they play and have a 100% accurate or honest response (not suggesting anyone is being dishonest deliberately more a wanting to play verses willing to play etc...).

 

As I said it isn't about being completely fair but about focus. If we want the community for the regulars then they are the ones to decide. I appreciate I am in a biased position it is something for everyone else to determine the fairness in that. I think a better way to put it is do you want people who share the values making the decisions or anyone.

 

The player count will drop from this. Indeed that would be the intent as long as people are clear that this is expected and if it weren't then there would be no need for it in the first place I hope people will persevere.

 

Finally, the people we are trying to remove are morons no need to quote it. The original meaning is a feeble minded person who is cannot grasp basic concepts and practices either through choice or a lack of ability. I think this is exactly what we wish to remove from the server. the former of that group also are idiots but not every moron is an idiot. I like my insults to be factually correct however.

Edited by Cunnah

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I don't think that because you are a regular that makes you biased. The vote isn't going to effect your "regularship" so there is nothing to be biased for except for possibly allowing donators to vote in the poll as well. On that topic I don't see what harm could come from allowing donators to have an actual vote, considering we are paying money towards the community as well, plus it would create the larger "sample" I mentioned before. And as far as player count, if someone is under the impression that we wont/shouldn't take a hit, than I just don't know what to say. 

 

As far as quoting "moron", I guess I just really like using quotation marks. 

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Please stop this discussion. It's pointless, there will be no opinion poll or anything.

 

Policy discussion will take place in this thread and sub forum. And will abide by the new donar system and any votes will be as per charter for regulars only.

 

No, stop this silly discussion and stay on topic.

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I just like airing my knowledge quotes are fine.

 

My main point is I haven't heard any argument against the proposal beyond what others may think. It seems like we are chasing our own tail if most people don't personally have a problem with it. 

Edited by Cunnah

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I would love to see some on topic discussion about this system. Any updates? 

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Did this clusterfuck really need restarting?

 

 

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Did this clusterfuck really need restarting?

 

 

acyEwDB.jpg

 

This is why I said "on topic". I think it's something worth discussion, people are obviously passionate about this topic and it shouldn't just die off, not trying to cause any drama 

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There has been plenty of discussion, feel free to read the past 18 pages of it. It has been discussed by just about everyone on every side, and it has only ended in drama. At this point either someone either gets off their ass and makes something happen, or nothing happens. More forum drama isn't going to solve anything. If you want to see what the current state of it is, find someone involved with it and PM or poke them and ask, but avoid necroing threads unless you have something new to bring to the table.

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Allow me to elaborate. There is no point to posting further in this thread (for the sake of debate/conversation/intellectual discourse). Most of the relevant points and counterpoints have been discussed. Just read the thread (and skip the childish bickering sections).

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There has been plenty of discussion, feel free to read the past 18 pages of it. It has been discussed by just about everyone on every side, and it has only ended in drama. At this point either someone either gets off their ass and makes something happen, or nothing happens. More forum drama isn't going to solve anything. If you want to see what the current state of it is, find someone involved with it and PM or poke them and ask, but avoid necroing threads unless you have something new to bring to the table.

This was pretty much the intent of my post, I would like to know if anything is going to come of this, or not

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