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Hawkeye

[Charter Modification] Modify 5.3.9 to remove 72 hour grace period for Officer resignations [2012-04-21]

[Charter Modification] Modify 5.3.9 to remove 72 hour grace period for Officer resignations [2012-04-21]  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Approve change to 5.3.9?

    • Yes
      29
    • No
      14


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Whereas-

According to the Charter 5.3.5:

 

Officers may not have any privileges or powers exceeding their tasks.

 

 

 

Therefore-

So that Officers do not have the privilege of a 72 hour grace period not afforded Regulars if the 5.2.8 poll passes I propose also amending section 5.3.9 of the Charter.

 

 

Current 5.3.9:

Any Officer may resign their position as an Officer by post in the UO Forum. The resignation takes effect in 72 hours unless said Officer retracts their resignation by post in the UO Forum.

 

 

New 5.3.9:

Any Officer may resign their position as an Officer by post in the UO Forum.

 

If you voted yes to change 5.2.8 then I believe you should also vote yes in this poll… however…

 

 

=============================================================================

 

Hawkeye’s defense of the 72 hour grace period (Charter 5.2.8 & 5.3.9)

 

 

Perception vs. facts

The current perception is that the 72 hour grace period promotes hasty decisions to resign. I would submit the facts paint a very different picture. For more than eight months 72 hour grace periods has been in place. During that time ten Regulars/Officers have resigned with only three rescinding their resignation. One of those Regulars now serves the UO community in the trusted position of Game Moderator.

 

 

Drama vs. actual threads

The current perception is that the 72 hour grace period promotes drama. On the contrary the person submitting his resignations has generally been very somber. Drama bombs have mostly been lobed in by others or the subject defending himself. I have provided links to the actual threads. If you have any doubt please read them. Do not cull out a single quote but read the threads in context. They are some of the most thoughtful threads on the Forum.

 

Apparently Rich’s resignation led to considering these Charter changes. In his resignation thread he made three posts:

2012-04-03 @ 16:07 - Resigning.

 

2012-04-03 @ 16:58 – (krause quote “inb4 another last second revocation due that stupid charter amendment.”) If that amendment wasn't in place I would request this be executed immediately.

 

2012-04-04 @ 12:40 - I wasn't going to post here again, but due to Thawk's post I feel like I have to clear something up. I definitely did not resign because that map got voted in. That's just stupid, and I actually laughed-hard-at the fact that some people would believe that.

 

This may qualify as drama but I can point you to hundreds of much hotter threads :smile:

 

Summary

The great thing about OFP/ARMA is how it broke the mold. Instead of running through rat mazes shooting stuff BI created a game that was open and challenges you to think. The great thing about UO is how it broke the mold. Instead of a typical paramilitary group the founders created a community based on a remarkable democracy. The first time I read the Charter I wanted to become a Regular. The reason I donate my time as a Forum Moderator is that I want to give back to the community I believe in. Yes there is too much drama, too much bravado and too many reactionary impulses. I believe no one is perfect and that extending grace is one of humanity’s most noble gifts or to borrow from Abraham Lincoln “the better angels of our nature”.

 

 

 

Please vote no in this poll to remove the 72 hour grace period for Officers. Please vote no in the poll to remove the 72 hour grace period for Regulars and if you previously voted yes please consider changing your vote to no.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Regular Resignations

 

2012-04-03, Rich

 

2012-03-12, Fansadox

 

2012-03-03, Sickly (rescinded, current GM)

 

2011-02-02, Hund

 

2011-09-20, Trapdoor (rescinded)

 

2011-09-11, Odd (rescinded)

 

 

Officer Resignations

 

2011-09-28, Boondocksaint

 

2011-09-26, Jaynus

 

2011-09-26, Fusionpoo

 

2011-08-31, Thawk

 

 

 

If I missed any resignations after 2011-08-02 please let me know. I will revise this post.

Edited by Hawkeye
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Delegates are not subject to this 72 hour rule - they are appointed and can be removed or appointed at will.

 

Also I voted yes for the same reason as the other poll.

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When I created the other poll, I forgot about the officer variant of this. I was somewhat conflicted on whether or not to remove it, so I was thinking about whether or not I should be a put to remove it and how. The special privileges part of the charter answered that.

 

Voted yes.

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beta as you know I am not in favor of this change but I do think if you take away the community's grace period from Regulars we must also take it away from Officers.

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I believe the 72 hours grace period should be given to everyone or no one at all for the sake of equality, if the Regular one is being removed then so should this one.

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Yeah, I agree with that Hawkeye. Just wasn't sure how to word it to not sound .. wierd?

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I personally feel that if you are resigning from an officer position you should be required to give notice, like most jobs. Though to keep the "fairness" I believe this would be a good move if the other change goes through.

 

Maybe instead of 72 drop it down to 12 or 24. Since officer positions are more like jobs. in my opinion of course.

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I voted yes on removing the 72 hour period for regulars, but im voting no for this one. Its not really a matter of fairness or equality as they are different positions with different roles. Difference is that the cool down period has been abused by regular(s) and has never been abused by an officer, and I do not expect anyone with officer status to be as immature to do so in the future either.

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Yeah, I agree with that Hawkeye. Just wasn't sure how to word it to not sound .. wierd?

It is absolutely weird for me beta to put up a poll I hope fails. I guess the only thing I know for sure is I hope they both pass or fail together.

 

I personally feel that if you are resigning from an officer position you should be required to give notice, like most jobs. Though to keep the "fairness" I believe this would be a good move if the other change goes through.

 

Maybe instead of 72 drop it down to 12 or 24. Since officer positions are more like jobs. in my opinion of course.

There an issue we must deal with if this poll fails. But we have to wait for the outcome first.

 

I voted yes on removing the 72 hour period for regulars, but im voting no for this one. Its not really a matter of fairness or equality as they are different positions with different roles. Difference is that the cool down period has been abused by regular(s) and has never been abused by an officer, and I do not expect anyone with officer status to be as immature to do so in the future either.

Blockhead do you believe having a grace period is a privilege? When do you feel a Regular who resigned acted immature? I know I thought what you are thinking until I read the threads.

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I do not believe its a privilege that would be in conflict with the intent of the charter. Officers obviously have special privileges because it is the nature of their job. Sickly acted immaturely when he resigned with the intent of withdrawing the resignation.

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I do not believe its a privilege that would be in conflict with the intent of the charter. Officers obviously have special privileges because it is the nature of their job. Sickly acted immaturely when he resigned with the intent of withdrawing the resignation.

 

Any evidence about this heavy charge?It took a few of us several hours to convince Sickly over TS to cancel his resignation, please present the evidence that he acted with premeditation in regards to his resignation.

 

Also, how does first part not conflict with:

5.3.5 - Officers may not have any privileges or powers exceeding their tasks.

Officers do not need an extra cooling time to do their job.

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Blockhead I could see where it is possible to come to that conclusion about Sickly and maybe you are privy to additional information. But if any Regular/Officer abuses the Charter grace period don’t you think that would be grounds for removal and garner a sufficient number of votes? Just combine the number Regulars in this poll alone who voted yes to get rid of the grace period PLUS a majority who voted no.

 

Personally I do not think we need to remove the grace period for one oblivious reason. From now on if a Regular/Officer ever rescinds their resignation unless they write hell of a post this community will put up a poll for removal anyway and vote him/her out. It is extremely clear our community does not want to be taken advantage of.

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I think anyone who comes to that conclusion about sickly is being grossly unfair or assuming a large amount of the incident. Anyone remotely involved knows how serious it was. The fact of the matter is, there has been no actual case of someone resigning immaturely, or using it as a reason. Which is why I have voted no the the changes.

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Regardless of true intent, those kinds of actions can be seen as immature.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

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Regardless of true intent, those kinds of actions can be seen as immature.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

Still, I don't see something appearing to be immature as a reason to remove an entire system. Especially when it has been attested many times to be fully serious. When it comes down to it, it is still assumptions based on perception of an individual, or the group that individual comes from, which should obviously be explored before using it as a factual reason in a debate.

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hawkeye, could you refrain from using comic sans ms font. It makes the text hard to read. :)

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Especially on iPhones, where it shows as cursive.

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As a friend of Sickly's, I talked to him more than once about it during the time it took place and he indicated that he never actually intended on resigning.

 

Any evidence about this heavy charge?It took a few of us several hours to convince Sickly over TS to cancel his resignation, please present the evidence that he acted with premeditation in regards to his resignation.

 

Yes ZZEZ, I record all conversations that take place on teamspeak in case someone decides to question my integrity and say im making shit up. Of course I would not have any evidence and I am not saying its something he needs to be penalized for it or anything, its just what happened.

Also, how does first part not conflict with the charter

 

Officers do not need an extra cooling time to do their job.

 

Do you really think that a cool off period qualifies as a special privilege that has potential for abuse that is extremely harmful to the community? Officers have duties that are important for the day to day operation of this community and we want to keep them in their positions so things don't get screwed up. Is it wrong to give them time to reconsider and discuss with the rest of the community their choice? A regular on the other hand does not have the same importance as a officer.

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You personally heard Sickly saying that he resigned with the intention of withdrawing his resignation to cause drama, why is there no removal poll?I'll personally ask Sickly if its true.

It doesn't matter what I think or not - the charter is crystal clear in that regard, it has nothing to do with abuse.

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As a friend of Sickly's, I talked to him more than once about it during the time it took place and he indicated that he never actually intended on resigning.

 

 

 

Yes ZZEZ, I record all conversations that take place on teamspeak in case someone decides to question my integrity and say im making shit up. Of course I would not have any evidence and I am not saying its something he needs to be penalized for it or anything, its just what happened.

 

 

Do you really think that a cool off period qualifies as a special privilege that has potential for abuse that is extremely harmful to the community? Officers have duties that are important for the day to day operation of this community and we want to keep them in their positions so things don't get screwed up. Is it wrong to give them time to reconsider and discuss with the rest of the community their choice? A regular on the other hand does not have the same importance as a officer.

 

When I made the thread I honestly did intend on resigning. I did tell 2-3 people who instantly asked about it when I hopped on TS that I wasn't planning on going through with it a few hours after putting up the thread, (you may have been one of them, I don't remember) but this was only because I didn't want to get hammered with questions when I was just trying to hang out in team speak. I didn't make up my mind for sure until about a day and a half after I put up the thread. Once I made up my mind I un resigned about six hours later. You were either one of the 2-3 people I talked to at the start, or you didn't understand me properly at the end.

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