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Evan

[Addon Removal] Tora Bora Island [2012-04-04]

Remove Tora Bora  

63 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we remove Tora Bora Island from UO mods?

    • Yes
      37
    • No
      25


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Yes ZZEZ, you will lose missions, which can be ported to other islands. Also, since the Irish map will pass, you will gain more frequently played missions. This isn't for the sake of megabytes. Its for the sake of allowing us to add another island, without expanding our already corpulent modpack in size.

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I still think that of all the maps, this is one that should not be removed, what with some mission makers not wanting to port missions that are played over and the terrain itself, which is really good, especially for the beloved infantry-only missions.

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As usual this argument happens about how "space is cheap and we have plenty of it" when people like me talk about making the mod pack smaller is happening. News Flash people, shrinking the mod pack is not for your benefit! It's for the new people who want to join our community who have to download a fucking 4 gig file before they can play! You can argue, that it helps weed out the serious players from the less serious players, but in my experience that simply isn't the case. But what it might do is weed out someone who wants to play tactically but doesn't want to do a lot of work, IE good, lazy people.

 

Imagine you're a new player who wants to play with us, you've just got the game installed and you took the day off to play with us since you've been watching our youtube videos and really want to see what the fuss is about. You begin all the getting started procedures and then you find out you have to download 4 gigs before you can even START the game! I'd be pissed, I wouldn't do it, I'd go play vanilla at TG! In-fact, the only reason I do do it is because my modpack is squared away and I've never HAD to download that much at one time, it's always been just incremental patches! The point is, stop being selfish dicks about disk space and think of the new people! I'm not saying a bigger community is necessarily better, but it is MY JOB to expand and improve the community, and it's harder to do that when 2 of every 3 possible new UO members say "fuck this" when seeing our mod pack!

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1)Show us evidence that we are losing 2/3 of new guys due to mod pack size[by the way I don't know if you noticed but no where is our mod pack size listed, new players unless someone tells them are going to download it without knowing the size]

2)The reason for TG's vanilla server popularity[or lack of] is our..mod size pack?how does this work?

 

I have not seen the rational argument in this, all I see is an attempt to remove missions from the primary for the sake of new people who supposedly complain about the mod size - now that I am thinking about it I do not remember a single new guy that complained in the forums about the mod pack size[and we even have the new guys saying that it doesn't matter to them], if you guys are saying its hurting the growth of the community then please show the evidence and cases of it actually happening.

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I actually downloaded the mod pack and didn't give two shits what the size was because I knew the download would be worth it. The experience is too great to pass up.

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[...] It's for the new people who want to join our community who have to download a fucking 4 gig file before they can play! You can argue, that it helps weed out the serious players from the less serious players, but in my experience that simply isn't the case. But what it might do is weed out someone who wants to play tactically but doesn't want to do a lot of work, IE good, lazy people.

 

Imagine you're a new player who wants to play with us, you've just got the game installed and you took the day off to play with us since you've been watching our youtube videos and really want to see what the fuss is about. You begin all the getting started procedures and then you find out you have to download 4 gigs before you can even START the game! I'd be pissed, I wouldn't do it, I'd go play vanilla at TG! In-fact, the only reason I do do it is because my modpack is squared away and I've never HAD to download that much at one time, it's always been just incremental patches! The point is, stop being selfish dicks about disk space and think of the new people! I'm not saying a bigger community is necessarily better, but it is MY JOB to expand and improve the community, and it's harder to do that when 2 of every 3 possible new UO members say "fuck this" when seeing our mod pack!

 

I am one of those "new players" who just joined this community few days ago. I can only talk for myself but I didn't care at all about the mod size. As stated above, if you are willing to join this community it definitely is worth it downloading the mod pack. I got less experience than you but I noticed the exact difference. The easier it is to join, the more "non serious" people will drop by. I honestly wanted to join this community way earlier but when I saw the getting started guide I thought "fuck that" and headed off (the mod size would have had the smallest impact on that decision). But when you come to the point where you want to seriously join here I think noone cares about the mod size (as long as it is acceptable). Seriously, if anyone says "fuck this" then it's because of the entire installation of the SU, TS3 and whatever. If I download 3GB of addons or 4.... who gives a shit.

 

@topic: I would love to see Tora Bora still being used on the server. One of my favorite maps along with Clafghan and the original Takistan. Might be just me but I like the "desert" countries much more than the ones with tons of vegetation. Maybe I have to be around for longer but until now I haven't had a single game on a "desert" map on the UO servers as far as I remember. Would be sad to have this great map removed for the sake of disk space.

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Some people (NZers are who I'm thinking of in particular) have extremely limited bandwidth caps and have to pay in advance to download more than they're allotted, in addition to very slow download speeds of US-hosted files. Now, guess what happens when their UOmods gets corrupted during one of the patches or buggy releases. They don't really want to spend their entire monthly bandwidth extension and 10 hours re/downloading just to get one server's mods working. I have two such friends who have been hindered/disinterested from playing in this community by this limitation. Guess they (i.e. their ISP) aren't hardcore enough for UO.

 

I'm personally unaffected by the size (other than convenience factor), but you should keep in mind when discussing the modpack's size that not every individual has it as sweet as you might when it comes to ISPs.

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How about you create a optional modset on six that includes only rarely used islands - heck, since most of our missions are on Takistan/Chenarus anyways, even remove all islands from the core pack and slash it by 2-3 GB.

 

Someone who has a bandwith cap can slowly acquire the full modpack in order of priority and still be able to play most of the time.

 

And on the 4 GB numbers - six compresses all of the files you download (those rsync folders), so it's a bit less - my UOMods rsync folder is showing at 3.3 GB.

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How about you create a optional modset on six that includes only rarely used islands - heck, since most of our missions are on Takistan/Chenarus anyways, even remove all islands from the core pack and slash it by 2-3 GB.

 

Someone who has a bandwith cap can slowly acquire the full modpack in order of priority and still be able to play most of the time.

 

And on the 4 GB numbers - six compresses all of the files you download (those rsync folders), so it's a bit less - my UOMods rsync folder is showing at 3.3 GB.

 

This would test the "growth of the community" idea.

 

I personally like the idea of having lots of islands. Arma 3 comes out soon and it won't even matter.

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Personally I am fan of this island.

The terrain features are greatly different from CLAfghan and offer better transitions between softer lowlands and the higher elevations. Varied use of low ground and mid ground terrain adds to its functionality.

This map offers a greater distinction and middle ground between CLAfghan/Takistan and was part of the reason it was added. Coupled with the good terrain and good object/feature placement I see no reason to remove this landmass at this time, even with it's relative size.

 

I would miss this landmass a fair bit, espically given the recent resurgence of it's use with missions in the last few weeks.

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I am trying to make a decision on whether to vote yes or no. But I can't vote anyway; however I can put up an opinion.

 

I never heard of ToraBora before the game, and honestly, I don't like the map. It's dusty, ugly, small villages, and crappy missions (except for Battle of Wanat). Clafghan is a good map, and when compared together, I would vote Claf hands down. However, previous comments about large amounts of grass and vegetation hinders vision are correct. And because Arma is Arma and AI can see through trees, it can be boring. But really, we shouldn't remove a map because we don't like it. Clafghan is on the Korengal Valley, which really is like that in real life. However, if it can be more detailed in anything (geographical features, buildings, locations, etc) then go ahead and remove it. I am really tired of seeing these votes go up because people "just don't like them". If you can't see through a tree, too bad because I can't see through a damn tree either. Life's a bitch and that's why the A-Stan combat is so hard because of mountains, deserts, trees, forests or whatever. Stop bitching that the sun is in your eyes and put on a pair of sunglasses. If ToraBora is like that, then don't remove it. If a better version can be made, then go ahead, take it off the mod pack. And if majority rules, then sure remove it. Ultimately, however, my answer is yes, because many of the previously mentioned subjects of tora bora are indeed true. And I agree that Tora Bora is not a map that is used often. Plus it's quite ugly, as already said. This doesn't really have to do with ToraBora, this just has to do with people to stop putting up a new thread for addon removal every goddamn day.

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I personally think it is a great island. The only problem that we seem to be willing to add new islands such as Carraigdubh whilst other islands such as Tora Bora have been around for quite some time and seem undeveloped. If I'm not mistaken, according to the mission list, we only have 11 missions on Tora Bora. Seems to me that it hasn't received much love from mak makers despite the appreciation that many of us give to that type of terrain/scenario.

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