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UnitedOperations

Regular Removal - Falcon [2012-03-17]

Remove this user from Regular Status?  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Falcon be removed as a Regular?

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      53


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Voted no. This is ridiculous.

 

 

 

I remember one time I was commanding one of his missions while he was in the server, and he didn't like my plan, so he started yelling at me and threatening to put up a poll to remove my Regular status. lol.

 

Well you metagamed the mission because you played it already and almost completely ignored the actual objectives. If someone did that in my mission I wouldnt yell but I would still be annoyed that someone completely disregarded the point of my mission.

 

 

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Not really sure what you're talking about, but if you'd like to discuss this further I've got plenty of room in my inbox.

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Voted no. This is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

Well you metagamed the mission because you played it already and almost completely ignored the actual objectives. If someone did that in my mission I wouldnt yell but I would still be annoyed that someone completely disregarded the point of my mission.

 

 

 

I was there for that and remember feeling that Falcon had a right to be upset, I did think he got a bit too upset. But you were not playing the missions objective at all and there was some metagaming even if wrong. I however didn't think it was worthy of threats of a removal poll, and the mission plays out even if you ignore parts of it (like actually searching the town for cache's and other evidence of hostile forces in the area.

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The mission Rich is talking about went like this:

 

Rich came up with his own plan, sending only one squad into the town itself, while sending the other two to set up security to the east(I think). I believe he had played it before, but I do believe there were mentions of a possible attack or something in the notes of the mission. It wasn't completely meta-gaming. Falcon just simply got mad that Rich was going about the mission in this way. He didn't ignored the objectives, he just completed them in a different way than the norm. Falcon did yell at him and did threaten to remove him as a regular via poll because of it. I witnessed both sides of this and it was a bit ridiculous, but I don't think he meant it seriously(He was just really angry at the time). Didn't really take it as Rich meta-gaming, but this was at least a month ago. Not too sure if it did mention it in the notes though.

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There was no mention of an attack in the briefing and it would make no sense to only send 1 squad according to the brief. Anyways.

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I seriously hope that this prompts Falcon to reevaluate his interpersonal tact when leading, and when on the server in general. I consider this poll valid, however the positive aspects that Falcon brings far outweigh the negatives. Voting no, but I'm sure that a little work on dealing with people in a personable manner would be appreciated by many future SL's and FTL's.

 

In regards to mircomanaging, for someone who knows about proper TTP's in an infantry platoon, you should understand the value of unit morale and the chain of command. If you berate a squad leader, they lose command presence among their squad. Also, as a PL, the only people you should EVER talk to are the PSG and your Squad Leaders. If anyone else approaches you while you are in PL slot, tell them to sod off and talk to their leadership chain.

 

Reminder: Leadership is influencing people by providing purpose, direction, and motivation while operation to accomplish the mission and improve the organization. Not telling people what to do by providing harassment, judging, and exasperation while operating to accomplish the mission. If people don't know how to do things your way, start an event like Tactical Tuesday and start training them. That's how I dealt with my frusterations, and have already heard people starting to use OPORD shell formats for briefing missions during that event, despite the fact that I never formally briefed their use to anyone on the server.

 

Be the change you wish to affect in the community. You can't teach people through criticism alone.

 

 

TL;DR: Falcon is a great asset to the community, but even great assets need improvement in one manner or another.

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My only real issue with Falcon is that he is extremely abrasive. He has a habit of backseat commanding from time to time and, more egregiously, tends to command/yell at people not directly involved with him. For instance, he rather consistantly yells at people/SLs as a Commander, (Hovering command, no less!) a (different) Squad leader and even as someone not actually in command of something. These tend to be little things, too, not something like "You're supposed to be at WP2 and you're at WP1!" or something, but instead "That isn't a proper wedge" or even "You there, get on this log and you get here and you get here" to people.

 

You micromanage. A lot.

 

Just keep a hands off. Do not talk to squadmembers as a commander, do not order them around. Order the SL, not them. Just do that and you are fine.

 

I, personally, dislike you. You are on my very short list of people I actively dislike on UO, namely for your micromanaging and hovering ways.

 

Just stop that and you're fine.

 

I am voting for him to remain a regular.

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Note to self, it is ok to break the charter rules if you play tactically.

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Breaking one part of the charter to uphold another? Interesting, daring, marvelous.

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Note to self, it is ok to break the charter rules if you play tactically.

 

What is being said here is that the community appreciate what Falcon brings in to UO, tactical gameplay on the server, Falcon's issue is his interpersonal communication with his subordinates and other players, they are saying that this should be corrected by Falcon because they like what he brings in to UO, in essence Falcon is a positive "force" in UO - no one is perfect and his good qualities together with his bad qualities are taken in to consideration when they are casting the votes, we all have our flaws and we should always strive to overcome our flaws to improve ourselves.

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The fact that people understand that Falcon can sometimes be abrasive but do not know how to deal with people that are like that are the real problem. How many times have people complained about how Falcon talks to people? A lot? Yes, but he is usually right, and he isn't incapable of being reasoned with when he might not be right.

 

It seems more like a vast majority of the community tend to just get incredibly defensive when they are questioned, and that applies when its abrasive like Falcon can be or when its more of an advising tone, a lot of people just don't listen. So yea, if you are doing something and Falcon is getting on your ass about it, it probably means you could use some improvement, try to see past how he is acting to what he is really saying and maybe you will learn something. Be cool and calm and rationale when you deal with him and you can usually expect the same thing from him, even if he comes across as condescending. If you honestly think you are right and not doing something stupid like Rich was doing then tell Falcon to fuck off (but in a polite way), but if you end up failing don't get pissed if there was some "I told you so" afterwards.

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There was no mention of an attack in the briefing and it would make no sense to only send 1 squad according to the brief. Anyways.

 

Well, I recall Rich mentioning something about it during the briefing, but I may be mistaken. It's been a while since.

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So your logic is to be polite to falcon as he is being abrasive to you lol wow

 

Instead of becoming an asshole and being retarded? Yes, that is what I am suggesting. You are a cop man, come on you should know some conflict resolving skills I hope, if you are interacting with someone who is belligerent you don't escalate the situation when you can attempt to resolve it in a more polite way.

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guys I normaly stay out of these kind of drama discussions but this is just getting ridicilous. Cant we all just get along and have fun without turning the community into the next nazi superstate.

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Many thanks to whoever posted this. This was a great idea to post this anonymously. It settles forever the argument that our anonymity should not be respected in regular polls.

 

Falcon's Personality

And the issue of Falcon’s style is a great one to spearhead the debate of herpderp vs tactical game play. He is abrasive, bombastic and talks to much. Its seems to only be personal when players are screwing around and then it’s great to have someone who steps up and doesn’t pull any punches. Godhand said it well

falcon is one of the few people here at UO that isen't just enforcing tactical gameplay, he is also one of the few that promotes it, i honestly think that a commander should be able to yell at people in game for not being able to follow orders,

 

I can’t count the number of times Falcon has criticized me and pointed out my faults … and I’m grateful to him. He often did it like a rant, hammering out all the little details. Then he usually encouraged others to criticize me to … and I appreciate that too. But with all of his criticism (even in his grating snotty tone) he never once did it with disrespect.

Many of us enjoy playing tactically and Falcon makes it easy to so. I have thin skin, but I can appreciate anyone who tries to make this a better place to game by standing up to players who want to disrupt players who want to game cooperatively.

If Falcon is removed for the violating the charter . 4.5, 1.1 when he calls some out players for herpderping then there will be a list of others (the best here at UO) that should be stripped of their Reg status.

Thanks to who ever posted this. It gives us a chance to show some respect where it is due. If he is too focused on tactical game play and has little time for non-ARMA style ARMA ... good for him. He is not usually on for very long.

 

WACS

As far as some players wanting to play WACs rather than other missions. Perhaps it could be solved by scheduling WAC events and those players who like WACs could play with the expectation of enjoying teamwork and cooperation. If we had a couple nights per week of WACs it leaves lots of time for other missions. There may be times when unscheduled serious game play might be sought on the server. Like after a training course the participants may want to get on and practice what they have just learned. It usually doesn't involve using the server all night. We would all appreciate if the training participants could form up a section (or a fire team) and play something that isn't too gamey.

 

Charter - Rules

4.5 - Players shall respect each other and act accordingly.

Have consistently heard complaints of Regular in question breaking 4.5 by yelling or berating individuals for minor (and major) mistakes or taking a bit too long completing his orders. I cannot understand how this in anyway is acting with respect towards fellow players.

 

That sound just like Zedic ....

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First I would like to thank everyone here for voicing their opinions; it has been obviously to me for some time that I am a point of coalescence for gameplay perspectives within this community and while it may not be the most admirable position to be in I can accept that.

 

As for the charges leveled at me being abrasive, arrogant, and condescending I agree that I have been all at one time or another to varying degrees. However I cannot stand for the charge that I have actively been disrespectful to people regulars or non-regulars within the context of this community. Despite my personal differences and irritations about various members of this community and despite being argumentative or condescending I never put myself if a position to disrespect their person or their personal integrity. I do not actively seek to undermine others authority when leading missions by mocking, mimicking them behind their backs. I do not deliberately sabotage missions to try to piss off people I don’t like. I do not sow discontent by openly deriding leadership decisions. However it is often these very same sophomoric things that lead to my instances of being abrasive when attempting to lead a mission.

 

As for being abrasive and condescending as I have already indicated it is something that I am usually not happy about. When I have an argument or disagreement on the sever I usually leave not happy about the way that I handled it, it’s something I try to improve a lot. As for why I have disagreements with people I think Nou’s post here reflects my own view of the situation:

 

The fact that people understand that Falcon can sometimes be abrasive but do not know how to deal with people that are like that are the real problem. How many times have people complained about how Falcon talks to people? A lot? Yes, but he is usually right, and he isn't incapable of being reasoned with when he might not be right.

 

It seems more like a vast majority of the community tend to just get incredibly defensive when they are questioned, and that applies when its abrasive like Falcon can be or when its more of an advising tone, a lot of people just don't listen. So yea, if you are doing something and Falcon is getting on your ass about it, it probably means you could use some improvement, try to see past how he is acting to what he is really saying and maybe you will learn something. Be cool and calm and rationale when you deal with him and you can usually expect the same thing from him, even if he comes across as condescending. If you honestly think you are right and not doing something stupid like Rich was doing then tell Falcon to fuck off (but in a polite way), but if you end up failing don't get pissed if there was some "I told you so" afterwards.

 

Personally I have a low tolerance for people doing stupid things when they know better; I don’t necessarily like this fact and I try to be extra patient but it doesn’t always work. Also this isn’t a matter of some internet power trip as quite a few people seem to suggest I don’t get all worked but because people aren’t doing what I said on the internet. The reason I get impatient and abrasive is because for me and quite a few other people here playing the game in a cooperative, team oriented, realistic and tactical manner is enjoyable and sitting in the middle of 30 people making ass-grabbing remarks and generally being herp-derp is not enjoyable. Everyone here has limited free time to one degree or another and the principal of UO is that we would like to spend that free time engaged in the first type of gameplay not the second. So if you’re making a fool of yourself or generally being a douche I’m going to call you out on it because not only are you degrading my experience your also degrading the experience of everyone who came to UO because what is written in the charter reflects how they would like to play. Too many people who used to play around here simply don’t anymore because it stopped being fun, because people who sit around and want to act like 10 year olds on xbox live ruined it for them and if anything here pisses me off it’s that. People here actively ruined a hobby for someone else who was just trying to relax and have fun with friends, I can’t really think about how someone could be more disrespectful in the setting of a gamming community.

 

As evidenced by my UOTC work I have no problems with people who are ignorant or simply new I like teaching people how to do things the right way and improving the standard of play. Where I have a problem is when people who know better make deliberate choices to do the wrong things or plainly just don’t listen. As Nou said usually I try to be level headed and rational and if your level headed and rational back there’s never a problem however I do have a tendency to get drawn in when people become defensive and want a fight. I completely acknowledge this and it’s not something I’m happy about and I desperately try to catch myself when I do it, with limited degrees of success. I would like to thank ratlover for his post because I think he summarized and highlighted some of my worst flaws when it comes to commanding and playing around here in a positive way and I defiantly take that to heart and want to improve those aspects of my gameplay.

 

In short yes I can be condescending, arrogant, and abrasive and despite what others may think I don’t particularly like that. Despite this I’m never going to intentionally disrespect you. I go out of my way to try and make UO the best experience that I can making missions, leading and occasionally try to whip people back into shape. Obviously some people here think I go too far and if that’s the case then I welcome the communities judgment on the issue.

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Too many people who used to play around here simply don’t anymore because it stopped being fun, because people who sit around and want to act like 10 year olds on xbox live ruined it for them and if anything here pisses me off it’s that.

 

This has been my problem for a while. A lot of good people are not around anymore.

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Nothing falcon does has ever bothered me, he doesn't break charter rules as some have suggested. More then many people (and many more regulars) he represents what this community stands for. I've gotten chewed out by, him, hell he relieved me of command on one occasion, but you know what, I deserved it, and if you're willing to honestly interpret your own abilities and actions you're not going to feel any negative...feelings towards someone who does that. Voting no.

 

Also, let's see here, 13 people want him removed...like 3 have stated their reasons...uh...guessing it's probably a similer group of people to those who always are asking others to post reasons in their threads...yeah they need to shut up.

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He's one of the few people I think who actually does what he says.

 

He's not perfect, but I think he's actually a fairly good regular. He contributes more than a large percentage of the green shirts we've got lying around.

 

Freaking grasshoppers man. Freaking Grasshoppers.

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I hope this will serve as a wake up call to Falcon to treat people with more respect.

 

As this has been addressed before in TS and the forums, I agree. But he has made progress towards being more cordial to people.

 

+1...but no.

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If this is simply a personality conflict then wasting the community’s time with this thread is wrong.

 

If the removal of Regular status is based on egregious actions then prove it. I will never vote to remove Regular status from a player without documented “bans” that demonstrate a continuing harmful pattern without remorse. Without a Regular first being warned by “Banning” it seems premature to strip Regular status.

 

As a Forum moderator I am also concern about the tone of Regular Removal threads. Too much drama and e-swagger. I believe these threads should be under the same rules as Ban threads… all posts require approval.

 

 

nb. Larger text for older Regulars

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I believe most of you are well aware Falcon and I do not get along... At all. But this is just stupid, yeah, Falcon can come off as a pompous asshole sometimes, but as it has been previously stated, his intention are almost 100% good. He helped set up this entire community from the start just like the rest of the founding member, you can see his work everytime you read the charter, and just about anytime your on the server for 2+ hours you have seen his work aswell. Falcon contributes to this community in everyway he can, and this is what he gets? A "wake-up call"? Really? Just grow up.

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