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CroMagnon

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core_pfieldgroups_2

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    Cannibalism. Dopplegangers. Cannibal dopplegangers. Leprechauns and leprechaun jurisprudence. Cannibal doppleganger leprechaun lawyers. The theme song to Bloodsport. LaToya Jackson does not exist.
  1. Wow, that's the punchline as far as I'm concerned. I guess that was just ignored, not convenient enough.
  2. Keep in mind, that question was rhetorical. I could have used myself or anyone as an example, it doesn't mean anything and I don't think of you as having some kind of bad attitude. It seems you're just applying a principle, and I had that thought about it.
  3. If only you had been here from the beginning. . . Incompetence and cronyism. All of us who were here when things were better will just nicely forget how many very well done missions and events were filmed and posted to Youtube, which brought people here. As for cronyism, imagine you and your friends throw a free party, and you each handle part of the tasks of getting ready and organizing things, some of you even cooking, serving food, etc. People show up, and some of them act like nothing is good enough for them, and they start insulting you and your friends, screwing things up in the house and acting like no one should be mad about it. When you stop people from causing problems, that is used against you. When you all defend yourselves against dickheaded attacks or just respond like a man would, that is also used against you. Since the party is free, people won't leave even though they don't like what they're getting. They just stay and cause problems because they're getting something out of it. Aquafresh, when you see something you made treated like shit, you bet your ass you're not going to be nice about people trying to make it suck for you, and you bet you're not going to let them break your will or your spirit. Hell no. You defy them because you have a spine. What people want here is for those who contribute most to have no self-respect. Pick up that can, Regular. Just get on the server. If you all think it's "just cronyism", you're lacking some history. As an example, let's say, during your time off from work you contribute to something you helped create because you enjoy it. Then, people attack what you created, they screw with you just for being the person who's doing something constructive, and they screw with you more when you react badly to their bullshit. They do this to others as well. Eventually, that's probably going to look like cronyism because you don't solve problems by attacking those people to the point they are adversarial just to defend what they do. That's how stupid all of this is. When people are backed into a corner together, that just might not be the right way to help them stop being adversarial. Maybe that makes the problem worse. You see cronyism, but I don't see a well-defined group like that. There are plenty of other Regulars who think similarly and do things similarly to the people you have in mind, but for some reason they aren't counted as cronies because that's not convenient. Most of them just don't participate as much because there is so much stupid political bullshit going on that Regulars won't utterly crush, they figure they cannot make the children and clueless adults stop on their own. Basically, plenty of valuable people see polls like this and realize that if they put forth effort and some situation happens where they aren't sensitive enough to someone who isn't mature or realistic and who can't put things into perspective, they're going to end up with their efforts being undermined and attacked.
  4. Sorry, I'm not going to play this dumb game of ignoring reality to act like we're all wearing laced collars and powdered wigs. What we actually need to deal with in UO has gotten so bad that we basically need to separate the adults from the children and "legal adults who haven't quite figured out adulthood". Therefore, if a Regular has no clothes, I'm going to be pointing it out and I'm not going to please this stupid idea of fake decorum when that principle of decorum is being used cheaply to hold up a facade. To refuse to acknowledge that Dylan's grudges are behind this poll would be dumb, and besides, if you didn't notice, Dylan may have been requesting something that isn't even a matter of government, and the information he sought apparently did not back up his original suspicion. So, instead, he's trying to screw Boon and Azzwort because they were supposed to obey someone who has caused them trouble for years. Get real.
  5. Are you kidding? It's silly to ask us to pretend it's not about personal problems. You've been at this for years, and we've all known family/friends/others who do exactly this kind of thing. Some people hold grudges, and some people need enemies. For years, the way you and others have tried to handle what upsets you has been completely ineffective at solving problems. Instead, it makes things worse and worse. Dylan, you started out screwing with people on the server, making toxic comments and socially undermining whoever wasn't sensitive enough for you. Then, after your first Regular poll didn't pass, you slowly shaped some things up when you finally had little choice but to do so. But, you kept the grudges. So, any time you have something you can use against someone you have a problem with, you want to nail them. This is why you are not civil. A facade of civility is not actual civility. Just drop the act, and admit you are fantasizing about some victory of your UO oppressors. Someday, you are going to have a boss in real life who will make you wish you were working for everyone you don't like here. You will be in a situation where you would pay money for that if you could. If you can't handle these people in a game community, you had better start preparing to cope with actual problems where if you backtalk or make snide comments behind peoples' backs to damage reputations, you will likely lose your livelihood. What you are doing at UO is not a way to deal with what bothers you, and if you are doing this at UO because of problems you have with the real world, it's unfair to people here and no good for what you actually need.
  6. Should we keep you as a Regular for the sake of having one? What have you done that justifies you being a Regular? Rhetorical questions. You might want to think about it. Edited to add: To be absolutely, 100% clear, I mean that rhetorically. It is in no way me saying, "hey let's remove you!" When I say "you" in that, I'm using you as a generic example, and not thinking of Kazu.
  7. More of the same. Dylan is trying to vote out Boon and Azzwort because he and others here want to find any reason they can to make them pay a price for trying. If the event went great, we all know they would still bitch about something. That's gone on for two years or more. Dylan started out here holding onto grudges due to being too sensitive about people whose opinions mattered too much to him for some reason, and it's never gone away. He's not the only one. We have a problem with overly-sensitive people who seem to think of UO like it's the world, and not just a game community where the people who started it and other people who contribute real knowledge and expertise are all real people, with lives, who are not perfect. And, they are still here, trying to find some enjoyment in a community where others have stoked outrage and flung fallacies against them for years. This emotional neediness - spending years trying to undermine others here for having the nerve to be themselves (they cannot be perfect) - is part of what is going to eventually ensure everyone here loses. The long campaign of lowering expectations and attacking people for trying has already resulted in drastically reduced activity and effort among Regulars and skilled non-Regulars (some of them have even left the community, degradation of quality of missions, lower frequency of events, less interaction and exchange between the knowledgeable and those seeking that knowledge. We have been paying a price for well over a year, and this is still happening.
  8. More of the same. Dylan is trying to vote out Boon and Azzwort because he and others here want to find any reason they can to make them pay a price for trying. If the event went great, we all know they would still bitch about something. That's gone on for two years or more. Dylan started out here holding onto grudges due to being too sensitive about people whose opinions mattered too much to him for some reason, and it's never gone away. He's not the only one. We have a problem with overly-sensitive people who seem to think of UO like it's the world, and not just a game community where the people who started it and other people who contribute real knowledge and expertise are all real people, with lives, who are not perfect. And, they are still here, trying to find some enjoyment in a community where others have stoked outrage and flung fallacies against them for years. This emotional neediness - spending years trying to undermine others here for having the nerve to be themselves (they cannot be perfect) - is part of what is going to eventually ensure everyone here loses. The long campaign of lowering expectations and attacking people for trying has already resulted in drastically reduced activity and effort among Regulars and skilled non-Regulars (some of them have even left the community, degradation of quality of missions, lower frequency of events, less interaction and exchange between the knowledgeable and those seeking that knowledge. We have been paying a price for well over a year, and this is still happening.
  9. We are in the situation that brought about this poll because us Regulars have been bitched at, and both openly and subtly opposed or even undermined, for having the nerve to try and enforce standards and rules. Yet, now you're all saying "oh we can already enforce these things, no need to vote yes here". If we do reject this poll and then go enforcing something like a Barrier of Entry without having it voted in, Regulars and non-Regulars will flip their shit and it will be the same thing all over again. Does anyone else notice the pattern here? The cases? You've massively oversimplified. While that would be great in an ideal world, I have to point out that you are casually dismissing problems here which have far too many Regulars burnt out on even attempting to lead. You tend to casually dismiss so many minor and major issues while telling people to "just get on the server". That's easy to say if you apathetically brush off what people less apathetic feel responsible to deal with. That cannot be avoided. Sometimes people just have to be removed from the situation. Some things are too costly to tolerate just because we want don't want the server population to drop by one. Add to that the risk that a person doing problematic things who is not removed may think and act as though what he is doing is acceptable because a Regular is there letting him get away with it. Perhaps they even end up feeling entitled to do what they want because some Regulars dismiss what they do. Then, other Regulars get to deal with them being upset because one Regular tolerates problematic actions while another does not. What if the leader is working with someone who does problematic things, but who that leader likes? We've seen many metric tons of instances where Regulars and non-Regulars enable people who cause problems. We have people who will cooperate with whoever they like, but who will cause problems for who they do not. This is similar to the previous example, though: sometimes a person just needs to be removed from the situation. If one Regular neglects to deal with a problem, then another has a responsibility to do so. If we have Regulars who think they are best taking a leadership position in 1/2, 1/3, or 1/5 of the missions they play since they feel they need to work on other things, or because they know how they perform best, that Regular is probably acting reasonably and constructively. You are being casually dismissive again here. Oversimplifying to make it sound like it should be easy for everyone to do what you do or what someone else does, is quite honestly getting ridiculous. Yes it is. There is again - it's all so simple! Why isn't UO doing great if that's all it takes? If you acknowledged why it's not that simple, you wouldn't be saying these things. Oversimplified. The threshold you've set for what is and is not a serious liability obviously leaves out a large number of things which other Regulars are affected by, and which they do not completely dismiss. Unless they are apathetic, lacking awareness or experience, or, for example, they feel comfortable and entertained being a 7 or 8 on the bastard scale as long as they get behind the 9's and 10's.
  10. My answer to that will take too much time for now. I'm tempted, it's as interesting as people are interesting, but to not have a disturbingly long answer, I will have to condense a long answer. So, maybe tomorrow. How? By being there to observe. Until some problems with which I am intimately familiar are lessened or solved, there is no way things could finally be constantly better on the server. Where did I say lack of Regulars playing is not a major part of the problem? I didn't. That problem has other causes, though, and those causes need to be dealt with so that Regulars actually feel like their efforts are not wasted. I would rather go to the root of the problem, and not do like others here, pushing for people to treat the symptoms while the disease progresses. Ideally, the symptoms would be treated while the disease is treated, as well. As for saying this is blame shifting, that label is applied in error. I am not responsible for others' actions. If I point out what seriously needs to be seen and understood, that is not blame shifting. It would be blame shifting if I were actually involved in causing those problems. Me playing on the server would not have prevented the problems I'm referring to, either.
  11. Everyone who thinks this is supposed to "change everything!" needs to realize this is only one measure to help a much larger situation. It's silly to think there is a single solution to such a complex situation. No policy or rule will make things better unless Regulars step up and "be the change". And whatever you mean by "centralization" will not matter unless it supports what UO set out to do, with Regulars taking up renewed interest and being the foundation upon which it all works. The BoE idea exists because Regulars who bother to advocate learning and increase of skill are treated as though they are unwelcome. This is an attempt at a compromise. For a long time, Regulars have seen their efforts undermined by Regulars who use a "good cop" routine to appeal to players in a way that tempts those players to disregard learning and improving their skills. The vast majority of the people who come here have never done what we set out to do, and it's very, very easy for them to default to playing Arma here much the same way they play other games. That's comfortable, and less demanding. It's great for them when Regulars make that seem okay, or even like it's the actual norm we strive for. The level of cheapness is astounding. A useful metaphor is that we want people to eat and learn to cook food that's actually nutritious. Cooking takes some effort, but not so much. Yet, we have Regulars who throw out hordes of hamburgers, hot dogs, and junk food, teaching people to use a microwave, and at the same time they're criticizing and even talking shit about the people who actually put forth more effort for a greater payoff. Whoever has the nerve to say, "you're not on the server enough," is following up one suckerpunch with another. Making it hard for people and then blaming them for resting while thinking of a solution is one massive dick move. At least I can thank you all for pushing it so far that it's become easier and easier to point out. Guess how many non-Regulars here have been led into trouble over and over because some Regulars were selling them on an outlook at odds with what the community was founded by other Regulars to do?
  12. For the second time, someone comes right out and finally says what I've been trying to point out all along. Anyone who has done this at UO should stop and recognize the principle that you don't make it miserable for people with skill, knowledge, and expertise to enjoy doing what they do with their free time. Anyone who has done this without realizing the effect you have, should now stop for good reasons. Anyone who has done this knowing the effect it causes, but not caring, should be ashamed. Having people willing to share their skill, knowledge, and expertise in a community means more than any sense of entitlement to entertainment "my way". This is especially true when it's a community devoted to cultivating skills among enough people that complex tasks are possible. People in the community act to ensure the community is toxic to other people who give these essential things. It's understandable we're in this situation. At least other Regulars now understand since they've heard it from the source, and they now also know how far back this problem goes. Let's say you give real effort to something free, for the benefit of others, and someone else acts against what you do or makes it miserable for you. You would not just crawl away and feel sad. You would hopefully have the self-respect to not give up because of someone's thoughtless and unawareness of why they should make distinctions in how they react to difference of opinion. It's one thing if you have difference of opinion with someone while you also consciously refuse to interfere and damage what they do. It's another thing if you interfere and damage what they do because of your opinion. The solution being voted on in this poll is an attempt to try and "meet in the middle", despite all of the above. It gives something which is needed for the sake of the community's continued existence. Why is there a need for a Barrier of Entry? Because the population of Regulars and non-Regulars includes people who act to dilute the efforts of skilled and knowledgeable people who teach and to be examples of how things can be done. It's far easier for a new person to favor the example of someone who asks less, demands less, and who has limited or no interest in an overall increase in skill among the playerbase. The effect that has is made worse by the fact that we're already in a constant uphill battle due to how the people who come here have never been involved in a community like UO, where things like chain of command are maintained by people and not by restriction in game design. Many Regulars not involved in the above need to snap out of it. This is ridiculous. If UO were a chess club, it's one where chess is discouraged because checkers is easier and more popular. If you are someone who runs the chess community because you like chess, you're supposed to just shut up and make the checkers players happy. For free. If you used to play chess here, you don't much anymore because in the past your efforts were either barely tolerated or unwelcome. However, now you're supposed to forget all of that and "just play on the server" while the same conditions still exist with support of people who do not want you to be successful.
  13. You are one of the safeguards. Lots of Regulars have helped clarify and resolve ban issues. In your example, though, I have to assume the course won't cover command-level skills and knowledge, so it won't be so easily cited to ban a CO in that situation. The lack of connection between the two should be clear, and I think that ban would be called into question as unreasonable enforcement.
  14. I'd also like to say to everyone voting no that you should not fool yourselves - you, like all other Regulars, have recourse to ensure this isn't used as some kind of trickery for mass banning. If that were even possible here, it would have happened a long time ago. You should also keep in mind that the number of Regulars you think will abuse this system are seriously outnumbered by Regulars who do not want that to happen. Honestly, why leave them out of your examples? The past year to year and a half has brought us some of our best Regulars, who are not connected to anything in the past. Ask them if they're voting for this because they want to use it to trick the community into allowing for mass-bans. I'm certain they will step in if needed. You seriously underestimate how many Regulars deal reasonably with issues here, and they are not going to let this get out of control. If people abuse this somehow, it's going to stand out, get documented, and bans will get overturned pretty easily. The oversight you want is already there. You're part of it.
  15. Let's add a perspective that has not been discussed this time around. A lot of Regulars are not playing because we do not have an constructive, official way to engage with new players in a way that ensures they do not learn their first lessons by making mistakes that may lead to conflict. What we do at UO is not like what people do in 99% of other games. That is a major factor, and that places demands on UO. In my opinion, we cannot meet those demands unless we have some way of taking in new players. "Just get on the server" does not entirely solve the problem. It is the most powerful part of the solution. However, the effect of Regulars playing on the server is constantly weakened by misunderstood expectations, to name just one cause. If we start with some very basic expectations taught in a course off the Primary server, many people will react well to that. It does them a favor. It will head off many instances of needless conflict and conflict's substanceless cousin, drama. As it is now, we have no commonly-enacted solution for starting people off in a way gives them a better chance. This will give new people a measure of confidence that many have not had. I don't see how it will hurt to point some people in the right direction. The measure of clarity that will give, while quite basic, is clearly underestimated right now. I'm also surprised there has been no mention of an idea discussed long ago, that being a certification for Regulars to teach this course. Some of us who aren't playing much because of these issues might show up ready and willing to teach these courses almost on-demand. That idea is not included in the poll, but it can easily be implemented if accepted. Those worried about "uber-realism" reigning supreme here do not need to worry. That issue is misunderstood. Considering how easy it is to settle for less and be entertained without any demands, and considering how nearly all other games only provide structure by game design, we are in a constant uphill battle. We have to try and keep pulling the level of competence upward just to maintain a workable norm. Yet, we have people pulling downward, thinking as though others are actually wanting to train a military in Arma. After all this time, we're pretty well aware UO is not going to become an uber-tactical paradise. This poll doesn't even create a constant pull upward to ever-increasing competence and demands. It's just a few stepping stones consisting of needed, basic knowledge. This won't result in a ban-frenzy, either. A lot of us actually like the idea of enabling people to succeed rather than constantly fail. If we have a way to engage with new people and constructively help them get on their feet, they have a chance to gain confidence, and they also have a chance to make a good impression without being sabotaged by anyone else. Make no mistake, that does happen. For instance, the other day 2/3 of the server were chasing a member who is a minor as some kind of pedo-frenzy mob. We've seen plenty of new people start out badly and then go on to reach a point of clarity and experience where they seem to "snap out of it". They don't become super-uber-tactical, they just become more interested and competent, and they are involved in less problem incidents. I can think of quite a few examples of non-Regulars who have gone over a lot of obstacles of initial confusion and needless conflict to finally arrive at that stage where they act with understanding and impress the hell out of us. We are responsible for making that easier, and that's why this poll exists. It would be nice to give an initial boost to the process, and I'd argue it will be more likely to happen, and faster, if we start people out better. We need an organized, official way of doing so.
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